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HelpRe: Boy's middle name for a girl---edit
in reply to a message by RoxStar
Yeah, that was really rude of them to refuse to call Bridget by her real name.
Lizzie's mother's name was Sarah. Andrew Borden's middle name was Jackson. Emma's middle name was Lenora. The child who died young was named Alice Ester.
Regarding your designation of the Bordens as upper-class: Not really. Although Andrew Borden was a descendant of one of the oldest families in the state, many of whom were or had been wealthy, he was born into a branch that did not have a lot of money and he struggled financially as a young man. By the time of his death, he definitely was wealthy, but this was entirely earned by himself, none of it had been inherited. And he chose not to live in the manner in which his money could enable him to. Their house was in a solidly middle-class neighborhood, not in the upper-class neighborhood in which the town's wealthy residents lived. He refused to have modern conveniences, such as indoor plumbing, installed. This was in fact pointed to as a possible motive for Lizzie to want to murder her father and stepmother--she wanted a better lifestyle, which her father refused to provide for her, although he could have, and was worried he would pre-decease her stepmother and leave the bulk of his fortune to her.
At the time of Lizzie's birth, he had not yet accumulated the bulk of his wealth, so I think at that time particularly, Andrew Borden and his wife could not be designated as upper-class.
Lizzie's mother's name was Sarah. Andrew Borden's middle name was Jackson. Emma's middle name was Lenora. The child who died young was named Alice Ester.
Regarding your designation of the Bordens as upper-class: Not really. Although Andrew Borden was a descendant of one of the oldest families in the state, many of whom were or had been wealthy, he was born into a branch that did not have a lot of money and he struggled financially as a young man. By the time of his death, he definitely was wealthy, but this was entirely earned by himself, none of it had been inherited. And he chose not to live in the manner in which his money could enable him to. Their house was in a solidly middle-class neighborhood, not in the upper-class neighborhood in which the town's wealthy residents lived. He refused to have modern conveniences, such as indoor plumbing, installed. This was in fact pointed to as a possible motive for Lizzie to want to murder her father and stepmother--she wanted a better lifestyle, which her father refused to provide for her, although he could have, and was worried he would pre-decease her stepmother and leave the bulk of his fortune to her.
At the time of Lizzie's birth, he had not yet accumulated the bulk of his wealth, so I think at that time particularly, Andrew Borden and his wife could not be designated as upper-class.
This message was edited 7/18/2014, 6:50 AM
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Especially among New Englanders in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, class wouldn't have been determined by money alone. Andrew Borden's lineage would have been more important.
I mean, look at impoverished aristocrats throughout Europe. They were surely still the upper classes, just without money. This is how it is where I'm from. Old name = upper class. Money, made on one's own or not, has little to do with it if you have an old name. However, if you don't have a prestigious lineage, and then you make lots of money, people around my hometown will call you nouveau riche.
I mean, look at impoverished aristocrats throughout Europe. They were surely still the upper classes, just without money. This is how it is where I'm from. Old name = upper class. Money, made on one's own or not, has little to do with it if you have an old name. However, if you don't have a prestigious lineage, and then you make lots of money, people around my hometown will call you nouveau riche.
This message was edited 7/18/2014, 11:25 AM
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So, would someone with an old name and no money get more respect/admiration than someone who made their own money?
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Maybe not respect or admiration, but envy or a little bit of awe. But maybe from those people who respect others based on their class, yes.
This is why if I were ever to make lots of money, I'd never refer to myself above middle class.
This is why if I were ever to make lots of money, I'd never refer to myself above middle class.
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I know we've had this discussion before, but that's the opposite of the way things are here. People would be more in awe of a person who came from nothing and worked themselves up to a higher tax bracket than a poor person with a family name. The family name person would be interesting, but it wouldn't be awe inspiring.
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