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This message was edited 3/19/2015, 5:36 AM
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When you're considering naming a child after the mom or dad, I don't think one is any more arrogant than the other. And there have been parents who've unashamedly named children after themselves (i.e., Desiderio (Desi) Arnaz and Lucille Ball named their children Desiderio (Desi), Jr., and Lucie Desiree). It's been done lots of times though not my thing.
I don't think it would necessarily look stupid to use (hypothetically) William or Mary as the fn. It's just not very exciting unless you absolutely adore those names. I perfectly understand why you'd want to use Mary as your mom sounds like an awesome person. Still, life is short and if this were me, I'd go with fns that my dh and I loved and use William and Mary in the middle which would still honor just as much as if they'd be used in the fn spot.
I don't think it would necessarily look stupid to use (hypothetically) William or Mary as the fn. It's just not very exciting unless you absolutely adore those names. I perfectly understand why you'd want to use Mary as your mom sounds like an awesome person. Still, life is short and if this were me, I'd go with fns that my dh and I loved and use William and Mary in the middle which would still honor just as much as if they'd be used in the fn spot.
This message was edited 3/17/2015, 5:03 AM
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Why is it arrogant to name a son after his father but not to name a daughter after her mother?
Anyway, what I would do is use the father's and mother's first names and give a middle name I love and call the kid by his or her middle name. I think you should defer to your husband's wishes when it comes to a son and he should defer to yours when it comes to daughter.
Anyway, what I would do is use the father's and mother's first names and give a middle name I love and call the kid by his or her middle name. I think you should defer to your husband's wishes when it comes to a son and he should defer to yours when it comes to daughter.
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I think I formulated myself badly; I don't think it's arrogant if we name our son 'James', but I think my FIL is a bit arrogant to name all his sons after himself and then expect his sons to do the same. It'll end up being 'an army of James'. That's why I prefer to use his (DH) middle name, which is what he's known by anyways. I do realize I'm being a bit hypocritical, though, which is why I want to hear what you guys think.
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Wow - I thought it was great-grandfather, grandfather, son, etc - not brothers! That is too much!
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Yep, it's all four brothers. The oldest one is a "proper jr". Most of them have SO's now as well, and from what I know, they are going to follow the "tradition". I just cringe at the thought of it..
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I really don't think you should be so preoccupied with what other people think.. they won't care, they probably won't even notice.
It does seem a little hypocritical for you to refuse to name a son to honour your father-in-law, but to insist on naming a daughter after your mother.. but that's between you and your partner.
It does seem a little hypocritical for you to refuse to name a son to honour your father-in-law, but to insist on naming a daughter after your mother.. but that's between you and your partner.
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Yeah, I know it's a bit hypocritical, which is why I'm asking you guys. I love my FIL, but he already has four sons carrying his name (and surely some of their offspring will, too), which is why I prefer to use my DH's middle name for a son instead. Just to clarify: we don't want to name our son after my FIL, but after DH. DH has always gone by his middle name, except on paper. I dislike his real first name, and don't see the point of using it.. He doesn't even like it himself, but he's reluctant to "break" the tradition.
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I'm fine with one Mary or one James per generation in a family. Using it for all of the kids- either all boys James like your example, or forms for all kids like Paul, Paula, Pauline, Pablo and Pavel- is a bit lazy because they basically gave everyone the same name.
I'm fine using a form of a name used for honoring.
I'd use names/ combos my partner and I love, and not worry about sharing the same name as my kids. I have several relatives who go by mns, so that isn't a problem to me.
I'm fine using a form of a name used for honoring.
I'd use names/ combos my partner and I love, and not worry about sharing the same name as my kids. I have several relatives who go by mns, so that isn't a problem to me.
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Thanks for your opinion!
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I'm glad you don't see any problems with it. Thanks for your opinion!
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I think maybe you're overthinking it a bit. I also think you don't really have a "tradition" to break regarding girls' names, if it was only your mother who named you after herself and not a long line of your grandmother and great-grandmother, etc.
I think, honestly, that the only "stupid looking" aspect here is the four sons all named the same first name. That's pretty tacky, and also seems like a joke, like you might see on TV.
If you are giving a name mainly because you feel like you have to, you should not give it. You should give a name you love and will be happy to call the child that every day of your life; if you happen to love William and Mary, so be it. (I don't go in for calling kids by the middle name; if you're going to call them by that name you should give it as the first name all along, especially if doing so will not change the status of a Jr., who, by definition, must have the exact same name as the person he is named after in the same order.)
Personally I would only give the "honoring" names as middle names.
I think, honestly, that the only "stupid looking" aspect here is the four sons all named the same first name. That's pretty tacky, and also seems like a joke, like you might see on TV.
If you are giving a name mainly because you feel like you have to, you should not give it. You should give a name you love and will be happy to call the child that every day of your life; if you happen to love William and Mary, so be it. (I don't go in for calling kids by the middle name; if you're going to call them by that name you should give it as the first name all along, especially if doing so will not change the status of a Jr., who, by definition, must have the exact same name as the person he is named after in the same order.)
Personally I would only give the "honoring" names as middle names.
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Yes, I know I'm overthinking it. I don't really want to name a daughter 'Mary' because it's my name, but because I would love to honor my mom. It just happens to be my name, too, so I agree, there's not really a tradition to break.
Hehe, I agree with the four sons. My FIL is a great guy, but I think he went way overboard.. I forgot to mention that one of the sons is an actual jr (not DH), so I know for a fact that his son will be a III (he and his wife have already said it). I'm feeling very hypocritical, but I feel it's a bit 'cold' to give a name I don't even like, just to follow tradition.
Hehe, I agree with the four sons. My FIL is a great guy, but I think he went way overboard.. I forgot to mention that one of the sons is an actual jr (not DH), so I know for a fact that his son will be a III (he and his wife have already said it). I'm feeling very hypocritical, but I feel it's a bit 'cold' to give a name I don't even like, just to follow tradition.
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Would it look stupid? No. It would look like honouring. A common and reasonable thing to do.
Would I do it? Only if I loved the person I was wanting to honour and liked the name.
Would I use a variation? In a heartbeat, if there was one I loved.
Would I swap it to the middle? Definitely. I see no logical reason for giving a child a particular first name, but deliberately calling them by their middle name.
Would I do it? Only if I loved the person I was wanting to honour and liked the name.
Would I use a variation? In a heartbeat, if there was one I loved.
Would I swap it to the middle? Definitely. I see no logical reason for giving a child a particular first name, but deliberately calling them by their middle name.
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As someone who goes exclusively by her middle name, I have to say it is a GIANT pain in the ass. I can't wait till I move back to Aus and can switch my names around legally (wish I could ditch my first name completely, but it means so much to my father that I can't bring myself to do it). I'd rather go through the hassle of changing all my legal paperwork than continue going by my middle name with all that that brings with it.
And it was my choice to switch. I don't get the point of doing it if you plan to call them by the middle name right from the start. Just give them the first name you plan to call them, and the other in the middle. It's still just as much honouring.
And it was my choice to switch. I don't get the point of doing it if you plan to call them by the middle name right from the start. Just give them the first name you plan to call them, and the other in the middle. It's still just as much honouring.
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I know most people think it's a pain, but I haven't actually had any problems with it. My parents were very accommodating, though, and informed teachers, etc, at schools that I preferred to be called by my middle name. There was another girl in my class who went by her middle name, and most of us didn't even realize that it wasn't her first name until graduation (after 6+ years together in the same class). However, I'm still reluctant to call my child by his/her middle name, but it might end up being the only way to compromise. I'm glad I still have lots of time to think of it!
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Agreed. Most people I know (who go by their middle) did it by choice.
I call my dd Bituin a lot, but never really in public, so she knows she is Clarisse.
The only exception I would make to that is people who share the exact name as their fathers or mothers (Juniors, etc)... then a middle name might make sense if the first name only has one nickname or none.
I call my dd Bituin a lot, but never really in public, so she knows she is Clarisse.
The only exception I would make to that is people who share the exact name as their fathers or mothers (Juniors, etc)... then a middle name might make sense if the first name only has one nickname or none.
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I don't think it would silly at all to name kids William _____ or Mary ______.
I'm a big fan of honoring names and using family names. Both of my kids have family names for their first and middle names. My daughter has the same middle name as me.
So as long as you're using a name you really like, I say go for it. I don't think I'd use a name I didn't love to honor someone. But if I loved the name AND it honored someone? That's a winner for me!
I'm a big fan of honoring names and using family names. Both of my kids have family names for their first and middle names. My daughter has the same middle name as me.
So as long as you're using a name you really like, I say go for it. I don't think I'd use a name I didn't love to honor someone. But if I loved the name AND it honored someone? That's a winner for me!
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In my case, I like 'Mary' a lot, but I definitely dislike 'James'. I don't want to hurt DH, but there's a very high possibility that his brothers will also name their future sons 'James _____', and I think that's just too much. I would gladly consider it if it was only his + his father's name, but I think 4+ James in each generation is way too much. On the other side, I feel greedy if I "demand" that we name our daughter Mary, and deny him to name our son James.. He's very accommodating though, but there's more family pressure from his side. I'd use his middle name any day!
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Agreed. Honoring should always be accompanied by at least a modicum of like for the name.
Preferably love for whichever name you plan to use daily.
Preferably love for whichever name you plan to use daily.
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IIWY I'd name my daughter _____ Marianna and my son _____ William (or James, whatever the man wants).
It would not look stupid if (James) William & (Mary) Elle named their kids (William) ____ and Mary _____. Nobody will even know, if you don't call them by the same names you go by.
I don't think your husband's family's names amount to a "tradition" of using the name James, any more than you and your mother amount to a tradition of using the name Mary. I think you do have to have equal treatment - your "right" to name a daughter after your mother should be treated the same as your husband's "right" to name a son after himself.
I think if you don't like the name James and don't want to call your son it, that's the final word on that - it will never be the name he is called by. Same as if your husband didn't like Mary; you would not want your real-life daughter called by a name her father dislikes! There's not much point in arguing about it right now, because when there's an actual baby, it'll almost certainly become obvious to your husband that he doesn't want to "force" you to call your son a name you don't like, or force his son to bear a name his mother dislikes.
Middle names are so useful. You can use them for honoring even when one of you doesn't like the name, and you can use them for address when the first name is purely traditional and not that appealing. The latter isn't something I'd ever do, because it's not my style, but there's nothing weird about using a parent's name for a child. Or both parents'. It's just awkward if you're introducing yourself and the child by the exact same name. "Hi I'm Mary, Mary's mom" ... it's not stupid, just distracting.
It would not look stupid if (James) William & (Mary) Elle named their kids (William) ____ and Mary _____. Nobody will even know, if you don't call them by the same names you go by.
I don't think your husband's family's names amount to a "tradition" of using the name James, any more than you and your mother amount to a tradition of using the name Mary. I think you do have to have equal treatment - your "right" to name a daughter after your mother should be treated the same as your husband's "right" to name a son after himself.
I think if you don't like the name James and don't want to call your son it, that's the final word on that - it will never be the name he is called by. Same as if your husband didn't like Mary; you would not want your real-life daughter called by a name her father dislikes! There's not much point in arguing about it right now, because when there's an actual baby, it'll almost certainly become obvious to your husband that he doesn't want to "force" you to call your son a name you don't like, or force his son to bear a name his mother dislikes.
Middle names are so useful. You can use them for honoring even when one of you doesn't like the name, and you can use them for address when the first name is purely traditional and not that appealing. The latter isn't something I'd ever do, because it's not my style, but there's nothing weird about using a parent's name for a child. Or both parents'. It's just awkward if you're introducing yourself and the child by the exact same name. "Hi I'm Mary, Mary's mom" ... it's not stupid, just distracting.
This message was edited 3/16/2015, 10:43 AM
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Yeah, I think middle names will save us. DH does like my name very much and he really wants us to use it. I'm kind of more feeling the need to modify the name, and use a variation ala Maria or Mariana. The problem is just that I don't like his (first) name, and I cringe at the thought of having another 'James'. His middle name is much more meaningful, I think, so hopefully that's the route we'll take. I'm a bit worried that his family will be enraged/hurt -- after all, we will be breaking more or less of a tradition. I hope we'll be able to use a variation of my MIL's name instead. It's time that she gets some love, too.
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Yeah, I see how it makes you cringe. Naming four sons after yourself doesn't make it a tradition, and if any naming after oneself looks "stupid," it's gotta be naming all four of your sons after yourself. Haha. If I were your husband, I'd want to step out of my dad's shadow by naming a son anything but James.
Anyway, if he's supposed to follow the James "tradition" then shouldn't his own brothers all follow it, too, and ought every one of the child's male cousins on Dad's side also have the same name? Nobody needs that much "honoring," IMO. Too silly!
It was satisfying (to me anyway) to put honoring names in the middle slot. I gave my son my (deceased) father's name as a middle name. However I don't think I'd have regretted it terribly, if my husband had objected and we'd just used a name we both liked, instead. It wasn't something worth going to the mat over. It seemed really important when I was pregnant, but now the boy is named - and although I am happy I gave him the honoring name, I realize it wasn't that crucial after all.
Anyway, if he's supposed to follow the James "tradition" then shouldn't his own brothers all follow it, too, and ought every one of the child's male cousins on Dad's side also have the same name? Nobody needs that much "honoring," IMO. Too silly!
It was satisfying (to me anyway) to put honoring names in the middle slot. I gave my son my (deceased) father's name as a middle name. However I don't think I'd have regretted it terribly, if my husband had objected and we'd just used a name we both liked, instead. It wasn't something worth going to the mat over. It seemed really important when I was pregnant, but now the boy is named - and although I am happy I gave him the honoring name, I realize it wasn't that crucial after all.
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Yes, and I know for a fact that his brothers will use 'James' -- They are all for tradition. I also think it's completely silly. I know they wouldn't create a spectacle if we don't use it, but I'm a bit scared my son will feel like an outsider. There are several other people from my family (and his, too) that I'd like to honor.
Thanks for your opinion!
Thanks for your opinion!
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First off, I should say that I am always in favor of honoring names. I think it is a great blessing to the parent or family member or at least piques the interest of young minds to find out about their family history. Tons of people only remember a long-gone relative because they were named after her/him.
If it helps, I know a lot of people who name their children after themselves (even women) in the first or middle spot. Its fine because usually a spouse or partner is there to give input on whether the choice is ridiculous or not.
In your case, the decision to name your daughter "Mary something" is now a tradition for two generations... not a personal preference in names. YOU know you would be naming her after your mother, so your daughter will grow to know that too. Other people don't really matter in that equation.
As for your son... I guess I can see why you don't like James. I don't technically consider it tacky though. My BIL has the middle name George. So does, literally, every single male member of his family. So, when he had a son, everyone just knew the middle name would be George. I see that as similar to your husbands situation.
If you used James, instead of your husband's middle, I would go all the way and simply make him a Junior. Same exact name. Someone has to start that line...
I know a friend who is a IV. His name is William Theophilus [lastname] the IV. Not many people get to say that, and it's cool... even though they all went by different names (William, Billy, Will, Bill and BT).
So - to answer your question... James William and Mary Elle would not look stupid naming their children William _______ and Mary _________. They would look like they went the traditional route with naming. ]
(if it helps, I gave my daughter a name after me in the middle spot, and might do it again).
If it helps, I know a lot of people who name their children after themselves (even women) in the first or middle spot. Its fine because usually a spouse or partner is there to give input on whether the choice is ridiculous or not.
In your case, the decision to name your daughter "Mary something" is now a tradition for two generations... not a personal preference in names. YOU know you would be naming her after your mother, so your daughter will grow to know that too. Other people don't really matter in that equation.
As for your son... I guess I can see why you don't like James. I don't technically consider it tacky though. My BIL has the middle name George. So does, literally, every single male member of his family. So, when he had a son, everyone just knew the middle name would be George. I see that as similar to your husbands situation.
If you used James, instead of your husband's middle, I would go all the way and simply make him a Junior. Same exact name. Someone has to start that line...
I know a friend who is a IV. His name is William Theophilus [lastname] the IV. Not many people get to say that, and it's cool... even though they all went by different names (William, Billy, Will, Bill and BT).
So - to answer your question... James William and Mary Elle would not look stupid naming their children William _______ and Mary _________. They would look like they went the traditional route with naming. ]
(if it helps, I gave my daughter a name after me in the middle spot, and might do it again).
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Thanks for your opinion. I do see your point on the Junior issue, and it's something I've been thinking of too. Only problem is, DH doesn't really identify as a 'James' -- He's always been William. He says that James could be a title for all he cares, but he does appreciate that he shares it with his closest male relatives. Right now, he's much more hyped on us calling a son William rather than James, as it would honor several deceased relatives of his (so it does honor - just not his father). However, IDK if he's not telling me how he really feels as I told him at the very beginning of our relationship: "there's no way I'm having a 'James'". Maybe I'll try to bring it up to him again.
Another thing I have in mind is that I was supposed to be a III, had I been a boy. My father doesn't have any other children, so I'm kind of feeling that I should use his name too.. This is just too much to comprehend right now, and I'm glad I've started thinking ahead so I won't have to stress all the way through a pregnancy.
Another thing I have in mind is that I was supposed to be a III, had I been a boy. My father doesn't have any other children, so I'm kind of feeling that I should use his name too.. This is just too much to comprehend right now, and I'm glad I've started thinking ahead so I won't have to stress all the way through a pregnancy.
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Ah. I see. Well William plus a name from your father would likely be lovely.
We wanted to use honoring middle names of family members, but got into the dilemma of who to honor and who not to... and whether people would be upset about it if we didn't use their name. So... we decided to honor our cultures instead.
In your case, if you like William... I would say that you have a great choice there as it's great as a first or middle. And... knowing the name your father has and working it in there might make naming a piece of cake for you guys.
Just remember though - no one has a right to be offended because of what you name your child. Even if they express displeasure at first, people forget about names once a baby is born and they love that little kid.
We wanted to use honoring middle names of family members, but got into the dilemma of who to honor and who not to... and whether people would be upset about it if we didn't use their name. So... we decided to honor our cultures instead.
In your case, if you like William... I would say that you have a great choice there as it's great as a first or middle. And... knowing the name your father has and working it in there might make naming a piece of cake for you guys.
Just remember though - no one has a right to be offended because of what you name your child. Even if they express displeasure at first, people forget about names once a baby is born and they love that little kid.
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