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HelpAtheists giving their kids Biblical names
Do you think it's unusual or ridiculous for atheists to give their kids names that are clearly in the Bible? I feel like I've been getting this impression from some people on this site that atheists have to give their kids secular names, and I disagree with that, since I don't think Biblical names always imply you're religious. I obviously don't mean really religious names like Nehemiah or Jochebed. I mean common Biblical names like David, Joshua, Jacob, Leah, Sarah, Rebecca, etc. Do you guys think it's weird?
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I think it's perfectly fine. Those are mainstream Western names. Some very obscure Bible name, say, Zebediah, might be a little weird, but David, Rebecca and Sarah? I mean, if you remove Biblical names, and then names that aren't in the Bible but have some Catholic saint that's attached to them, there aren't that many names left, especially if your taste doesn't run towards the trendy or made up.
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No I don't think it's weird.
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The names you mentioned are so well-established that I don't think anyone would think twice if an atheist named their child Sarah or David. Yes, they are used in the Bible, but they have had so much usage outside of the Bible that the association is no longer that strong. Something like Habakkuk or Kenaniah might make me think that the parents were Biblically-oriented, and I'd be a bit surprised to see an atheist use them (since those are names that have not had much usage in the English-speaking world and the Bible would be one of the few places one would come across them). Even so, if an atheist wished to name his/her child Habakkuk because he/she thought it was a cool name or after great-grandpa Habakkuk, that's fine. Though he/she should be prepared to hear "Oh, like in the Bible?"
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I don't think it's ridiculous for a couple of reasons. Most of Europe was controlled by the Church for hundreds of years, so Christian names are deeply embedded in the culture of those countries and, deplorable as their colonial pasts are, the names given in their former colonies.
Secondly, although a poster below has suggested that 'biblical' names are only known to us through the Bible, that simply isn't true for many of them. They are also preserved in Roman, Greek, Persian and Egyptian literature to mention a few.
Secondly, although a poster below has suggested that 'biblical' names are only known to us through the Bible, that simply isn't true for many of them. They are also preserved in Roman, Greek, Persian and Egyptian literature to mention a few.
This message was edited 9/24/2016, 7:30 AM
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Okay, so I'm an atheist and I don't see anything wrong/weird with using names that are more common. I personally adore James and generally enjoy Jonas and Elizabeth and even Micah.
I do think the super religious sounding ones would be strange. Can't imagine an atheist with a kid named anything like Elimelech or Gideon or Zipporah.
I, oddly enough, have more of a problem with people atheists naming their children names like Grace and Hope which is stupid, I realize, because it's not like these are strictly religious ideas/themes, but I think it was growing up with such an intense Christian background that I just immediately associate all of these words with the religion.
Oh! Also I'm confused by atheists naming their children things like Christian and Jude and whatever. I just don't get it.
I do think the super religious sounding ones would be strange. Can't imagine an atheist with a kid named anything like Elimelech or Gideon or Zipporah.
I, oddly enough, have more of a problem with people atheists naming their children names like Grace and Hope which is stupid, I realize, because it's not like these are strictly religious ideas/themes, but I think it was growing up with such an intense Christian background that I just immediately associate all of these words with the religion.
Oh! Also I'm confused by atheists naming their children things like Christian and Jude and whatever. I just don't get it.
This message was edited 9/24/2016, 4:01 AM
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I think names can be picked and used by anyone no matter what, as long as you don't offend anyone name (eg Adolf/Osama) your child what you like! I am incredibly non religious and I love Mary and Grace and Im pretty sure they are two quite religiously associated names.
This message was edited 9/23/2016, 9:58 PM
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Not at all! A LOT of common names have Biblical origins but don't have any kind of biblical associations anymore. Even if you're aware that a name is Biblical, you're not going to think "oh, you named your baby a common popular name that happens to be from the bible so you must be religious!"
Like yeah, Nehemiah = probably religious. Jacob, David, etc = definitely not. Very neutral common names. My brother is named Jacob, and it's technically Biblical but I don't think anyone would see it that way. Nobody told my parents not to use that name because it was Biblical. (It's also a family name so that's another reason you might use a Biblical name).
The only religious names I think are weird is if you name a baby something obviously meant to refer to that religion. Like if you name your kid Christian, that's weird. There are two things that could happen: he'll either end up as a non-Christian named Christian or a Christian named Christian. Either way it's just weird. It's either ironic or awkward.
(Interestingly, I don't feel that way about people obviously named after a religious figure. Like babies are named things like Muhammed and Jesus, but those are still names that exist outside of the religious context. They're very much associated with religions, so it would still be ironic if the baby grew up to be anything other than that specific religion. But it wouldn't be awkward the way something like "Christian" would be.)
ETA: Many/most Biblical names are associated with specific stories. So you could still name your baby a Biblical name in reference to a Biblical person without being religious. For example, Ruth in the Bible basically represents kindness, so that's a good thing to name your kid after regardless of whether you're religious or not. And I think everyone can agree that Jesus (historically and/or Biblically) was at the very least great role model-- not a bad person to name your baby after, even if you don't think he was the son of God.
Like yeah, Nehemiah = probably religious. Jacob, David, etc = definitely not. Very neutral common names. My brother is named Jacob, and it's technically Biblical but I don't think anyone would see it that way. Nobody told my parents not to use that name because it was Biblical. (It's also a family name so that's another reason you might use a Biblical name).
The only religious names I think are weird is if you name a baby something obviously meant to refer to that religion. Like if you name your kid Christian, that's weird. There are two things that could happen: he'll either end up as a non-Christian named Christian or a Christian named Christian. Either way it's just weird. It's either ironic or awkward.
(Interestingly, I don't feel that way about people obviously named after a religious figure. Like babies are named things like Muhammed and Jesus, but those are still names that exist outside of the religious context. They're very much associated with religions, so it would still be ironic if the baby grew up to be anything other than that specific religion. But it wouldn't be awkward the way something like "Christian" would be.)
ETA: Many/most Biblical names are associated with specific stories. So you could still name your baby a Biblical name in reference to a Biblical person without being religious. For example, Ruth in the Bible basically represents kindness, so that's a good thing to name your kid after regardless of whether you're religious or not. And I think everyone can agree that Jesus (historically and/or Biblically) was at the very least great role model-- not a bad person to name your baby after, even if you don't think he was the son of God.
This message was edited 9/23/2016, 9:42 PM
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I was raised by an atheist and an agnostic. I am agnostic myself but I have always loved angel names and names that end in -iel.
Most people in the US don't seem to care much about name meanings. But a lot of people in Asia seem to care more about name meanings than name sound.
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Most people in the US don't seem to care much about name meanings. But a lot of people in Asia seem to care more about name meanings than name sound.
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They were names before the Bible came along.
This message was edited 9/23/2016, 12:52 PM
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Definitely true. I tend to think of the Bible as a semi-historical document full of stories people made up or changed to teach lessons to their followers and was rewritten many times through history to suit what Christian spiritual leaders felt the current generation's beliefs and needs should be.
The names in the Bible are just the names that were popular among people at the time or maybe just popular with Christian's at the time. There are also names that they chose to portray in a negative light by giving them to people of "poor" character or they belonged to people of "poor" character. They may have also made up some of the names in the Bible I would assume they did but maybe not.
I've heard until recently most Christian's used to not consider the Bible to be literal but rather a teaching tool full of metaphor. The number of people who view the Bible to be the literal word of God has been growing in number. I would find it difficult to view it as a completely historical document since we can trace the history of the Bible and it has been changed many times and parts of it have been removed. The question always becomes what exactly was changed. I know that some of the names have definitely changed through time and translation.
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The names in the Bible are just the names that were popular among people at the time or maybe just popular with Christian's at the time. There are also names that they chose to portray in a negative light by giving them to people of "poor" character or they belonged to people of "poor" character. They may have also made up some of the names in the Bible I would assume they did but maybe not.
I've heard until recently most Christian's used to not consider the Bible to be literal but rather a teaching tool full of metaphor. The number of people who view the Bible to be the literal word of God has been growing in number. I would find it difficult to view it as a completely historical document since we can trace the history of the Bible and it has been changed many times and parts of it have been removed. The question always becomes what exactly was changed. I know that some of the names have definitely changed through time and translation.
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This message was edited 9/23/2016, 2:16 PM
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I didn't know there were people who viewed the Bible to be literal. But even then, the people in the Bible would have been named whatever they were named before the Bible existed. Their parents gave them the names they did for some reason. None of the major Biblical names could have existed without the Hebrew language existing first, which couldn't have existed without its predecessors, etc.
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Yep and there are a lot of people especially in the US who take the Bible to be literal. The number supposedly keeps growing. Through history there have been generations where literal believers of the Bible were the majority and generations where the majority felt the Bible was more about metaphor. We are currently in a time where the majority of Christian's in the US believe the Bible to be literal.
Most Catholics I know view the Bible to be metaphorical and most of the Christian's I'm close to are Catholics. Though I know more people who believe in God but are not Christian's, Jew's, or Muslims. Some of them actively dislike organized religion but some of them just don't find it necessary. The PNW has a lot of people who are not apart of an organized religion.
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Most Catholics I know view the Bible to be metaphorical and most of the Christian's I'm close to are Catholics. Though I know more people who believe in God but are not Christian's, Jew's, or Muslims. Some of them actively dislike organized religion but some of them just don't find it necessary. The PNW has a lot of people who are not apart of an organized religion.
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This message was edited 9/24/2016, 4:42 AM
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I don't want an argument, just to give you information if you wish to read it.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-no4-2016-july/bible-changed-or-tampered/#?insight[search_id]=538803df-a087-47de-a556-13db90d4ce93&insight[search_result_index]=13
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-no4-2016-july/bible-changed-or-tampered/#?insight[search_id]=538803df-a087-47de-a556-13db90d4ce93&insight[search_result_index]=13
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Um, not a very unbiased source there.
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What?!
Obviously some of them were but we only have them recorded at all because of the Bible.
Obviously some of them were but we only have them recorded at all because of the Bible.
This message was edited 9/24/2016, 2:50 AM
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Well, all names in the Bible were names before the Bible was written. They weren't made up for the sake of writing the Bible. Yes, we know of them because they are recorded there but technically they pretty much existed without correlation to the Bible to begin with.
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Still, Adam was the first "Adam", Eve the first "Eve", same with Abel, Cain and Enoch.
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Were they? We don't know.
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It depends on your faith, I guess. I have full faith that they were.
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The names themselves probably just developed naturally from language the way most names do. If nobody had recorded any of the stuff in the Bible, those names would still have been passed on through language and because people like to name their kids after relatives or ancestors (even if the Biblical people were the first people to ever have those names).
But it's not like they just decided to name their babies some gibberish sound that then became a name. They had root words from the language and sound structures that identified them as "namey".
But it's not like they just decided to name their babies some gibberish sound that then became a name. They had root words from the language and sound structures that identified them as "namey".
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Yes and lets not forget that all of the Old Testament names are Jewish and many of those names are common to Islamic naming traditions as well!
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I reckon more names have probably survived and more are widely known in the western world due to the Bible but you're right =)
Unfortunately, we get a lot of gibberish names today. I just saw a BA of Jonal *sigh*.
Unfortunately, we get a lot of gibberish names today. I just saw a BA of Jonal *sigh*.
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We obviously have different views of what the Bible is. I respect your belief, I don't want to turn this discussion into some big religious argument. I just see it differently than you.
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That's fine. I respect all beliefs but especially appreciate when people are informed, whatever their conclusions about the information may =)
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No, it's not weird for non-religious people to give their kids names that are in the Bible. The Bible may still be part of your heritage even if you don't believe it is special in any way.
Certain Bible characters seem to have religious meaning, and not being religious myself, I wouldn't be comfy using names that could be interpreted by religious people as references to religion - at least, not when I don't have the religious education to know what any allusions might be. So there are names from the Bible I wouldn't use because I feel too ignorant of what they might mean to religious people. And I personally just don't get a feeling most Biblical names would be "right" for my family... almost all of us have names of Latin, Greek, or Germanic origin; the few Christian names - Joseph (a middle name) and Daniel are the only 2 I know of in the last 3 generations on my side - stand out to me in my family. If we mostly had names like John and Mark and Sarah and Ruth, I would probably barely distinguish between Bible names and other names.
But if other people use Biblical names, I don't assume they are used for religious meaning. They're mostly just names to me (there are a few less frequent ones that strike me as archaic and therefore more Bible-specific and probably religious). The reasons I personally wouldn't use Hebrew names from the Bible, apply only to myself.
Certain Bible characters seem to have religious meaning, and not being religious myself, I wouldn't be comfy using names that could be interpreted by religious people as references to religion - at least, not when I don't have the religious education to know what any allusions might be. So there are names from the Bible I wouldn't use because I feel too ignorant of what they might mean to religious people. And I personally just don't get a feeling most Biblical names would be "right" for my family... almost all of us have names of Latin, Greek, or Germanic origin; the few Christian names - Joseph (a middle name) and Daniel are the only 2 I know of in the last 3 generations on my side - stand out to me in my family. If we mostly had names like John and Mark and Sarah and Ruth, I would probably barely distinguish between Bible names and other names.
But if other people use Biblical names, I don't assume they are used for religious meaning. They're mostly just names to me (there are a few less frequent ones that strike me as archaic and therefore more Bible-specific and probably religious). The reasons I personally wouldn't use Hebrew names from the Bible, apply only to myself.
This message was edited 9/23/2016, 9:45 AM
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We named our son Peter David Alastair, and he's grown up to be as atheistical as we are. And we also used Mary, Elizabeth and Anne as mns for our daughters. So, no, it looks pretty ordinary from where I sit.
I've got a biblical fn myself, and was almost Sarah Anne after my dad's mother. She had her children baptised (not a biblical name in sight) but I've got no clue if she went to church herself.
I've got a biblical fn myself, and was almost Sarah Anne after my dad's mother. She had her children baptised (not a biblical name in sight) but I've got no clue if she went to church herself.
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No, we live a in very Christian socitey so are names are going to reflect that, so it's a by-product of our socitey that these names are so common that all of them become fair game to anyone who wants to use them! Simple as that!
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My straightforward answer is no.
To expand: some names are so common and have had such a run high in the popularity charts that they are no longer initially thought of as 'religious' names but are now 'popular' names. Take Mary, for example, she's the mother Christ and yet I doubt most Marys (these days) are named after her. I know in my personal circumstances that when I use Mary if I am lucky enough to have a daughter in the future it will be because it is a family name not because of any religious affiliation.
Finding out a name is common in the Bible does not put me off a name if a) I really like it enough and b) it is well-known enough outside said holy book. Jonah fits this, it has recently shot into my top boys position; I love it's meaning and sound, the fact it's highly associated with a Bible story and I am not religious doesn't bother me and if we chose this name for a future son I am not worried it will negatively impact his life.
To expand: some names are so common and have had such a run high in the popularity charts that they are no longer initially thought of as 'religious' names but are now 'popular' names. Take Mary, for example, she's the mother Christ and yet I doubt most Marys (these days) are named after her. I know in my personal circumstances that when I use Mary if I am lucky enough to have a daughter in the future it will be because it is a family name not because of any religious affiliation.
Finding out a name is common in the Bible does not put me off a name if a) I really like it enough and b) it is well-known enough outside said holy book. Jonah fits this, it has recently shot into my top boys position; I love it's meaning and sound, the fact it's highly associated with a Bible story and I am not religious doesn't bother me and if we chose this name for a future son I am not worried it will negatively impact his life.
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I don't think it's necessarily strange or ridiculous. A lot of people don't seem to do any research on the names they choose, so they have no idea these more popular names are even from the Bible.
I'm atheist and I actually like a lot of less popular Biblical names. I personally wouldn't use them because they're not really my style, but I could see someone else just liking a name enough to use it, or seeing it used somewhere else and therefore not associating it with the Bible, like Ebenezer used in honor of A Christmas Carol.
I'm atheist and I actually like a lot of less popular Biblical names. I personally wouldn't use them because they're not really my style, but I could see someone else just liking a name enough to use it, or seeing it used somewhere else and therefore not associating it with the Bible, like Ebenezer used in honor of A Christmas Carol.
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Not at all. Those names are so well-used that their Biblican origin is only a small part of their history.
It would be as silly as thinking that a Christian parent shouldn't name their kids anything but Biblical names.
It would be as silly as thinking that a Christian parent shouldn't name their kids anything but Biblical names.
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I don't think it's ridiculous. Most people don't care. How many parents of Sarahs, Abigails, or Rachels know about the religious connection. I'm an atheist and I want a Hebrew name for my potential child to match the Jewish last name it will have.
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A bit, but less so if it's one that is so common it doesn't immediately scream Biblical. If it was more Biblical, then I'd wonder why they didn't put more significance on name origins and meanings... must not be namenerds. :) I have two little cousins named Luke and John, and my aunt and uncle are decidedly not religious, so it does at the least amuse me.
This message was edited 9/23/2016, 6:59 AM
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Most people, and I mean probably 90% although there's no real way of measuring this, don't give a rip about name origins and meanings.
When I get a chance, I will ask my daughter, "Why did you use the names Abraham and Thaddeus although you are an atheist?" Because I actually don't know what her answer will be, although I do know that both boys were given the names in part after an historical person.
When I get a chance, I will ask my daughter, "Why did you use the names Abraham and Thaddeus although you are an atheist?" Because I actually don't know what her answer will be, although I do know that both boys were given the names in part after an historical person.
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No. Lots of people give their kids names out of books.
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I actually discuss this on a thread down below.
Would you think its unusual or ridiculous for a Christian to name their child Mohammed?
I think some names lose their original associations over time and gradually gain new associations for most modern people. That being said, I do think its odd to choose a name that is against your personal belief system. I wouldn't ever name my child Mohammed or Zeus or Siddhartha. Maybe a name used by people of that religion, but not use within that religion.
Would you think its unusual or ridiculous for a Christian to name their child Mohammed?
I think some names lose their original associations over time and gradually gain new associations for most modern people. That being said, I do think its odd to choose a name that is against your personal belief system. I wouldn't ever name my child Mohammed or Zeus or Siddhartha. Maybe a name used by people of that religion, but not use within that religion.
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An American Christian naming their child Mohammed is a culture clash, though, due to the fact that there have been very few Muslims in the USA historically. (And if we leave it up to Donald Trump, there will be even fewer.) It's not the same as an American atheist using a Biblical name in a country where the vast majority of citizens have always been either Christians or Jews. There isn't a clash of cultures between American atheists and American theists.
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I think the Biblical association really only applies according to the level of obscurity.
I mean, sure, there are parents who name their kid Sarah because of "the Sarah" but there are people who don't.
That said, I doubt there is anyone naming their kid Zadok or Genesis without wanting a Biblical connection.
I would even go as far to say that people can use some obscure BIble names (Asa, Damaris, Ebenezer) without knowing or caring about the Biblical connection. Most "Bible" names are first and foremost Hebrew, Persian, Roman, etc.
I mean, sure, there are parents who name their kid Sarah because of "the Sarah" but there are people who don't.
That said, I doubt there is anyone naming their kid Zadok or Genesis without wanting a Biblical connection.
I would even go as far to say that people can use some obscure BIble names (Asa, Damaris, Ebenezer) without knowing or caring about the Biblical connection. Most "Bible" names are first and foremost Hebrew, Persian, Roman, etc.
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For common biblical names, I don't think it's weird at all. For heavily OT names, perhaps. (I'd have a problem using a heavily OT name, lol.) Then again, the parents might like the meaning or the sound of the name
I think the commonly-used names tend to transcend religion.
I think the commonly-used names tend to transcend religion.
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I don't think it is ridiculous; there are so many motives behind a name. When you want to name your child after deceased or living family members, your name choices are often restricted and you cannot avoid a biblical name. Another motive may be a name that does not "stand out" and is yelling at everybody "Your parents are atheists". Again, some more or less secularised biblical names can be the names of your choice.
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I was just thinking about this! I think with more popular names it's come to a point where they're so well known and used the biblical connections aren't as prominent. Of course it's there, but there are many more associations that people have with them, so they're not seen as only religious.
Personally I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable using more unusual biblical names. I'd probably more class myself as agnostic than an atheist, but I wouldn't want to use a really obscure or unusual name from the Bible, where that would be the sole association. I feel like people would be more likely to assume I was religious in that case. For example I really like Ephraim, but it's quite unusual and biblical, so I've been debating whether I'd actually use it. Luckily I've found a very similar non religious, alternative that I'm now considering. I wouldn't want to appear to be something I'm not or use a name from the Bible (or any other religious book or religion) when I'm not sure I even believe in it.
As someone who likes names, I can see the appeal, and I'd try not to jump to any conclusions as to religion etc. just looking at what people name their kids. But at the same time I definitely wouldn't want to offend someone's religion or beliefs by using a name just because I like it. There are lots of great religious names out there, but I'd take into consideration what they mean and represent to others and see if it's wholly appropriate to use them as someone who isn't religious.
I'm not sure how much of that makes sense.
Personally I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable using more unusual biblical names. I'd probably more class myself as agnostic than an atheist, but I wouldn't want to use a really obscure or unusual name from the Bible, where that would be the sole association. I feel like people would be more likely to assume I was religious in that case. For example I really like Ephraim, but it's quite unusual and biblical, so I've been debating whether I'd actually use it. Luckily I've found a very similar non religious, alternative that I'm now considering. I wouldn't want to appear to be something I'm not or use a name from the Bible (or any other religious book or religion) when I'm not sure I even believe in it.
As someone who likes names, I can see the appeal, and I'd try not to jump to any conclusions as to religion etc. just looking at what people name their kids. But at the same time I definitely wouldn't want to offend someone's religion or beliefs by using a name just because I like it. There are lots of great religious names out there, but I'd take into consideration what they mean and represent to others and see if it's wholly appropriate to use them as someone who isn't religious.
I'm not sure how much of that makes sense.
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Ah, use Ephraim anyway! Say you heard it on Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.
Sure, HE was named after the Bible, but you don't have to be pinned down to someone else's association with a name.
Believe me, I have heard enough "oh, you must like gruesome movies" when they hear "Clarice and Nadine". Just because other's think of something when they hear a name, it's not your problem.
Still, if I was adamantly against something, I suppose I couldn't use a name that goes along with it.
Sure, HE was named after the Bible, but you don't have to be pinned down to someone else's association with a name.
Believe me, I have heard enough "oh, you must like gruesome movies" when they hear "Clarice and Nadine". Just because other's think of something when they hear a name, it's not your problem.
Still, if I was adamantly against something, I suppose I couldn't use a name that goes along with it.
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"Still, if I was adamantly against something, I suppose I couldn't use a name that goes along with it."
Yah, this is my feeling about it. As a Christian, I am unlikely to use names strongly association with Cuddhism, Hinduism, mythology, Islam, etc. It just doesn't seem right.
Yah, this is my feeling about it. As a Christian, I am unlikely to use names strongly association with Cuddhism, Hinduism, mythology, Islam, etc. It just doesn't seem right.
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Ooh, good point! I didn't think of that, and I have watched about half of it haha. For me it's kind of like using a name from a fandom I'm not in. Doesn't feel quite right somehow, and relgion can get a bit more complicated of course.
And for the record I don't think of horror with Clarisse and Nadine, they're just wonderful names :).
And for the record I don't think of horror with Clarisse and Nadine, they're just wonderful names :).
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I disagree that we need to take into consideration what names mean and represent to others before we decide if it's appropriate to use them. It's an individual's choice and nobody else's business.
Besides, I highly doubt that any American Christians or Jews object to an atheist using Biblical names.
Besides, I highly doubt that any American Christians or Jews object to an atheist using Biblical names.
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Gotta disagree with your first point.
I think it's important to look into how a name comes across to others. I mean, Adolf in itself isn't a terrible name or meaning, but damn, it comes across pretty horribly to most people. I don't want to saddle that on my kid because I like how it sounds. It would mean people would have preconceived notions about my child/family before they/we ever met.
I think it's important to look into how a name comes across to others. I mean, Adolf in itself isn't a terrible name or meaning, but damn, it comes across pretty horribly to most people. I don't want to saddle that on my kid because I like how it sounds. It would mean people would have preconceived notions about my child/family before they/we ever met.
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I was speaking of names that cross cultural boundaries. I didn't mean something like Adolf or something ridiculous.
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I guess I mean I'd at least research and look into it, as I would with names from other religions, if it came to actually using them. But, on your second point, yeah, probably not.
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It would be sort of weird, but also a name is a name, doesn't matter.
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