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ArchivesTaboo name Jesus?
It looks like the use of JESUS as a given name was taboo in most European countries except Spain an Portugal. Does anybody know why this wasn't a problem in these two countries?
(I did check quite a number of google hits, but they all repeated, what I knew already, but didn't explain why)
Andy ;—)
(I did check quite a number of google hits, but they all repeated, what I knew already, but didn't explain why)
Andy ;—)
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Replies
Naming a child Jesus does seem, let's say, overambitious! But presumably in Iberian traditions it's just a sign of respect.
I know this isn't evidence - far from it - but decades ago I read one of those little heartwarming stories in the Readers Digest (I was in the dentist's waiting room, I hasten to add!) by a woman who'd been a teacher in a rural community somewhere in the impoverished Deep South of the US, and she goes back years later and meets some of her past pupils ... one of whom is a black man (no mention of Spanish) called Jesus Only Jones. And it seemed as if he was known as Jesus Only, the way some John Pauls are known as John Paul instead of John.
The sheer exoticism of it stuck in my little mind like glue ...
I know this isn't evidence - far from it - but decades ago I read one of those little heartwarming stories in the Readers Digest (I was in the dentist's waiting room, I hasten to add!) by a woman who'd been a teacher in a rural community somewhere in the impoverished Deep South of the US, and she goes back years later and meets some of her past pupils ... one of whom is a black man (no mention of Spanish) called Jesus Only Jones. And it seemed as if he was known as Jesus Only, the way some John Pauls are known as John Paul instead of John.
The sheer exoticism of it stuck in my little mind like glue ...
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Really? Jews have always used it though... weird!
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That would be my Guess...
Or you could argue that it is a lesson from the journey of sin (Tower of Babel) where they tried to be as reat as God, or create a Dominion apart from God. So they may see it as equate oneself with god. Mary probably changed since she is NOT God, and in the Catholic tradtion, should only be venerated, like a Saint, and since saint's names are used, I guess it followed the same pattern.
However, I did realize your statement on Mary only appearing later. While looking at some Royal genealogies, I did not see Maria, Mary, Marie or any other forms of the name until the 15th century.
Lala
Or you could argue that it is a lesson from the journey of sin (Tower of Babel) where they tried to be as reat as God, or create a Dominion apart from God. So they may see it as equate oneself with god. Mary probably changed since she is NOT God, and in the Catholic tradtion, should only be venerated, like a Saint, and since saint's names are used, I guess it followed the same pattern.
However, I did realize your statement on Mary only appearing later. While looking at some Royal genealogies, I did not see Maria, Mary, Marie or any other forms of the name until the 15th century.
Lala
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The Reformation.
In the late 1400s/early 1500s Reformation came about. This is when Catholiscm stopped being the only type of Christianity. Mary wasn't as revered as much, she was actually made to be "human." (As the Baptist believe, she had other children after Jesus) So Mary was looked upon with respect, but she was no longer "holy."
Jesus has always been holy, which is the reason the name was never allowed.
Does this make sense?
http://www.mun.ca/rels/reform/ - info on the Reformation.
Siri
The Daughter of a Baptist Minister in love with the Reformation.
In the late 1400s/early 1500s Reformation came about. This is when Catholiscm stopped being the only type of Christianity. Mary wasn't as revered as much, she was actually made to be "human." (As the Baptist believe, she had other children after Jesus) So Mary was looked upon with respect, but she was no longer "holy."
Jesus has always been holy, which is the reason the name was never allowed.
Does this make sense?
http://www.mun.ca/rels/reform/ - info on the Reformation.
Siri
The Daughter of a Baptist Minister in love with the Reformation.
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But Mary *was* used before the reformation . . .
The Dictionary of English Surnames site (here: http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/ - I originally got this link from Miranda who as you know prizes accuracy, so I trust it) lists the following forms of Mary in England:
Before 1250:
Maria
Marie
Marion
Mariot
Mariota
1250-1450:
Maria
Marie
Marion
Mariot
Mariota
Mariun
Mary
After 1450:
Mary
Additionally, one of the most famous historic Marys, Queen Mary of England, was born in 1516, and the reformation under her father, King Henry VIII, began very decisively some 17 years later in 1533. Queen Mary also had an aunt Mary (Mary Tudor, Henry's younger sister) who was sufficiently older that when she died in 1533 she had been married twice, her first husband having died in 1515.
The Dictionary of English Surnames site (here: http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/ - I originally got this link from Miranda who as you know prizes accuracy, so I trust it) lists the following forms of Mary in England:
Before 1250:
Maria
Marie
Marion
Mariot
Mariota
1250-1450:
Maria
Marie
Marion
Mariot
Mariota
Mariun
Mary
After 1450:
Mary
Additionally, one of the most famous historic Marys, Queen Mary of England, was born in 1516, and the reformation under her father, King Henry VIII, began very decisively some 17 years later in 1533. Queen Mary also had an aunt Mary (Mary Tudor, Henry's younger sister) who was sufficiently older that when she died in 1533 she had been married twice, her first husband having died in 1515.
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More historical Marys (long)
Royalty, who else? I'm going up to the early 1500s here.
Burgundy:
Marie of Blois (1128-1190)
Mary of Valois (1386-1422)
Mary of Valois (1393-1463) - Niece of the above
Mary of Valois, duchess of Burgundy (1457-1482)
Flanders:
Mary of Blois, countess of Boulogne (m. 1160)
Mary of Champagne (1174-1204)
Mary of Dampierre, abbess of Flines (d. 1302)
Mary of Flanders (d. 1297)
Hainaut:
Mary of Champagne (1174-1204) - Same as above
Mary of Hainaut (Marie of Hainaut) (1280-1354)
Holland:
Mary of Brabant (~1190-1260) - She married William I of Holland. Their son married Mary's sister Margaret O_o
Brabant:
Mary of Brabant (~1190-1260) - Same as above
Mary of Hohenstaufen (1201-1235)
Mary of Brabant (1226-1256)
Mary of Brabant (1260-1321)
Mary of Brabant (1325-1399)
Brittany:
Mary, viscountess of Limoges (1260-1291)
Mary of Brittany (1268-1339)
Mary of Brittany (1302-1371)
Mary of Brittany (1391-1446)
Mary of Brittany (1444-1506)
Lorraine:
Mary of Lorraine (d. 1334)
Royalty, who else? I'm going up to the early 1500s here.
Burgundy:
Marie of Blois (1128-1190)
Mary of Valois (1386-1422)
Mary of Valois (1393-1463) - Niece of the above
Mary of Valois, duchess of Burgundy (1457-1482)
Flanders:
Mary of Blois, countess of Boulogne (m. 1160)
Mary of Champagne (1174-1204)
Mary of Dampierre, abbess of Flines (d. 1302)
Mary of Flanders (d. 1297)
Hainaut:
Mary of Champagne (1174-1204) - Same as above
Mary of Hainaut (Marie of Hainaut) (1280-1354)
Holland:
Mary of Brabant (~1190-1260) - She married William I of Holland. Their son married Mary's sister Margaret O_o
Brabant:
Mary of Brabant (~1190-1260) - Same as above
Mary of Hohenstaufen (1201-1235)
Mary of Brabant (1226-1256)
Mary of Brabant (1260-1321)
Mary of Brabant (1325-1399)
Brittany:
Mary, viscountess of Limoges (1260-1291)
Mary of Brittany (1268-1339)
Mary of Brittany (1302-1371)
Mary of Brittany (1391-1446)
Mary of Brittany (1444-1506)
Lorraine:
Mary of Lorraine (d. 1334)
This message was edited 1/31/2005, 3:34 PM
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Mary was taboo before that, though.
But it must have been a rather long time before.
~♥Eirena♥~
But it must have been a rather long time before.
~♥Eirena♥~
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