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ArchivesRe: Origin and meaning
in reply to a message by Marija Luminitsa
What is the source of the word riya meaning singer in Sanskrit?
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I worked from an email submission and then verified with Maneka Gandhi's book. This appears to be wrong however, as riya does not mean singer in Sanskrit!
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This is just a small note to put on record a pretty far-fetched theory. As I pointed out on this board before, I do not know the origin of riyA, and I have no dictionary or usage which shows riyA as a singer in Sanskrit. But, Sanskrit is a big language, and I have over time figured out one possible way riyA can have something to do with singing.
There is a root R (ऋ) which means to move up or be straight. This is the root of words like Arya (from someone with straight or high conduct) and Rju (straight as in a simple path) etc. But, an obscure use of the word is to raise ones voice in singing vedic chants in praise of the gods. This usage could give rise to riyA meaning chanting or singing. If I tried a bit more, I might be able to get singer, but as I said this is already far fetched, and I only wanted to note it since I haven't seen this written down elsewhere.
I am, however, still inclined to believe that this is a foreign name borrowed into India. The earliest Riya I personally know of is probably born around the middle of the 20th century, and spells her name as RYA (ঋয়া) in Bengali, further confirming the theory that it is not Indian (The sound R is rather uncommon in newly coined words), or it is related to Sanskrit R. In north India, R often merges into ri in pronouciation (elsewhere, it often merges into ru).
There is a root R (ऋ) which means to move up or be straight. This is the root of words like Arya (from someone with straight or high conduct) and Rju (straight as in a simple path) etc. But, an obscure use of the word is to raise ones voice in singing vedic chants in praise of the gods. This usage could give rise to riyA meaning chanting or singing. If I tried a bit more, I might be able to get singer, but as I said this is already far fetched, and I only wanted to note it since I haven't seen this written down elsewhere.
I am, however, still inclined to believe that this is a foreign name borrowed into India. The earliest Riya I personally know of is probably born around the middle of the 20th century, and spells her name as RYA (ঋয়া) in Bengali, further confirming the theory that it is not Indian (The sound R is rather uncommon in newly coined words), or it is related to Sanskrit R. In north India, R often merges into ri in pronouciation (elsewhere, it often merges into ru).
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Thanks!
So what you all mean't was Riya not an Indian Origin and was borrowed by foreign name.
So what you all mean't was Riya not an Indian Origin and was borrowed by foreign name.
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More precisely: I do not know if the origin is Indian. The meaning singer is *very likely* not of Sanskrit origin, but half the words spoken in India do not trace themselves to Sanskrit. So far I haven't been able to trace the origin to any language in India that I know, but it is a vast linguinstic region.
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You are probably correct.
However, on this site:
http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche
there is a Sanskrit entry for riya. I can't really interpret the abbreviations and conventions the site uses, but I believe the entry says riya relates to rai, which means "barking, sound, noise". Maybe this is the origin of the singer theory?
However, on this site:
http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche
there is a Sanskrit entry for riya. I can't really interpret the abbreviations and conventions the site uses, but I believe the entry says riya relates to rai, which means "barking, sound, noise". Maybe this is the origin of the singer theory?
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Thanks: that entry is from Monier-Williams, the premier dictionary of Sanskrit. The entry with abbreviations expanded and interspersing the devnagari script to avoid ambiguities says (ignore the technical term parasmaipadi)
रिय riya, Nominal verb Parasmaipada (परस्मैपदी) -yati (रियति) (from रै) Patanjali (पतञ्जलि) (compare root 1. री ri)
First note this is giving a verbal stem: we need to get a noun and then feminine from that. Not impossible, but ...
I believe the word rai being talked about here is the word meaning wealth (related to Latin res/rem) and not to the one meaning barking. The latter is also an Indoeuropean root, but the verbal form is far more common than the noun form in Sanskrit and it would be pretty peculiar to get from the well known rai verbal stem to a minor noun rai (meaning bark) to riya verbal stem. In other words with a perfectly good रायति, रियति would sound odd. It is far more probable that रियति means to reify. I can't check quickly because it is an obscure enough word that the only citation provided is Patanjali, who is a famous grammarian.
The reference to the verbal stem ri (री) is because that can also give rise to riyati (रियति) exceptionally. That verb means to set free or detach, melt, etc., and is what you see as the meaning dissolved for Rina. I doubt that is the true origin of the name Rina, though.
रिय riya, Nominal verb Parasmaipada (परस्मैपदी) -yati (रियति) (from रै) Patanjali (पतञ्जलि) (compare root 1. री ri)
First note this is giving a verbal stem: we need to get a noun and then feminine from that. Not impossible, but ...
I believe the word rai being talked about here is the word meaning wealth (related to Latin res/rem) and not to the one meaning barking. The latter is also an Indoeuropean root, but the verbal form is far more common than the noun form in Sanskrit and it would be pretty peculiar to get from the well known rai verbal stem to a minor noun rai (meaning bark) to riya verbal stem. In other words with a perfectly good रायति, रियति would sound odd. It is far more probable that रियति means to reify. I can't check quickly because it is an obscure enough word that the only citation provided is Patanjali, who is a famous grammarian.
The reference to the verbal stem ri (री) is because that can also give rise to riyati (रियति) exceptionally. That verb means to set free or detach, melt, etc., and is what you see as the meaning dissolved for Rina. I doubt that is the true origin of the name Rina, though.
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