New Post
Search
Help
Archiveshelp with name meanings
I am confused about the meanings of two names. I have read through about five baby name books, and at least three or four of them claimed that the name Deirdre means "sorrow." However, this website says it means "girl or young woman," or something like that.
Also, the name books I read were usually uncertain about Brendan. One claimed that it meant "raven," one gave several possible meanings, and the others were uncertain. This website says that it means "prince."
Can anyone help me make sense of these things?
Also, the name books I read were usually uncertain about Brendan. One claimed that it meant "raven," one gave several possible meanings, and the others were uncertain. This website says that it means "prince."
Can anyone help me make sense of these things?
1
Replies
Brendan is Irish from Bréanainn derived from a Celtic element meaning 'prince' - in medieval Latin (and thus birth/baptismal records which were recorded by the church in Latin) the form was Brendanus which led to Brendan in English use and the modern Gaelic form Breandán. Similar Celtic elements led Gaelic students to theorise alternate meanings of 'stinking hair' or 'dweller by the beacon' but they can't back that up through records or use. What meant 'raven' was the Welsh bran as in Branwen...close but no cigar.
Where anyone gets the idea that they know the meaning of Deirdre is beyond me. Scholars have looked up and down and can only come up with best guesses - to quote Oxford's reference, 'of uncertain derivation; the earliest Celtic forms are very variable'. The 'sorrows' meaning is an associative one, tragic heroine Deirdre, sometimes taken of symbolic of Ireland under English rule, has been wholly responsible for that one. Where 'woman' comes from is quite the mystery - it's Bean in Irish. There was a rather negative term based on Middle Irish diul/del which meant, well,...'suck-giver'. They got that from the Latin influence though so really can't be worked up here. The *most likely* meaning is that it came from the Irish deardan meaning 'storm' and thus interpreted as anything from 'stormy, tempestuous' to 'raging', depending on how much the interpreter likes the name ;o)
How to avoid the confusion - my advice would be to avoid all websites and books that link the words 'baby' and 'names'. Serious scholars study names and research their true meaning based on evidence. Babies have little to nothing to do with it and those that cater to the newest generation of baby-namers aren't interested in scholarship ;o)
Devon
Where anyone gets the idea that they know the meaning of Deirdre is beyond me. Scholars have looked up and down and can only come up with best guesses - to quote Oxford's reference, 'of uncertain derivation; the earliest Celtic forms are very variable'. The 'sorrows' meaning is an associative one, tragic heroine Deirdre, sometimes taken of symbolic of Ireland under English rule, has been wholly responsible for that one. Where 'woman' comes from is quite the mystery - it's Bean in Irish. There was a rather negative term based on Middle Irish diul/del which meant, well,...'suck-giver'. They got that from the Latin influence though so really can't be worked up here. The *most likely* meaning is that it came from the Irish deardan meaning 'storm' and thus interpreted as anything from 'stormy, tempestuous' to 'raging', depending on how much the interpreter likes the name ;o)
How to avoid the confusion - my advice would be to avoid all websites and books that link the words 'baby' and 'names'. Serious scholars study names and research their true meaning based on evidence. Babies have little to nothing to do with it and those that cater to the newest generation of baby-namers aren't interested in scholarship ;o)
Devon
1
This is an immaculate answer in all regards.
I should add that the 'raven' association is compounded by the literary definitions of 'bran' and 'branán.' 'Branán' also indicates 'a prince' and 'a principal piece in an ancient board-game set.' That last definition jibes with other reading regarding an ancient chess-like game called 'brandubh' (where the 'bran' does mean 'raven'). It is similar or equivical to another ancient game called 'fidhcheall' (modernly 'ficheall'). Infact, this latter word is now used for the Gaelic translation of 'chess.'
I should add that the 'raven' association is compounded by the literary definitions of 'bran' and 'branán.' 'Branán' also indicates 'a prince' and 'a principal piece in an ancient board-game set.' That last definition jibes with other reading regarding an ancient chess-like game called 'brandubh' (where the 'bran' does mean 'raven'). It is similar or equivical to another ancient game called 'fidhcheall' (modernly 'ficheall'). Infact, this latter word is now used for the Gaelic translation of 'chess.'
1
Deirdre was a tragic heroine in Irish myth. So her name became used to symbolise or personify Ireland itself - like John Bull, Marianne, Uncle Sam ... and so you get whole literary works (like Deirdre of the Sorrows) with a hidden meaning. Irish history having been pretty miserable, the meaning of sorrow and misery has been firmly associated with the name.
Must say, I would expect people to give their daughters a name less obvious than "woman" and less gloomy than "sorrow", but who am I to judge? It sounds beautiful. And my friend was widowed as a very young, pregnant wife, and when her daughter was born she named her Deirdre. It seemed appropriate then, all right.
Must say, I would expect people to give their daughters a name less obvious than "woman" and less gloomy than "sorrow", but who am I to judge? It sounds beautiful. And my friend was widowed as a very young, pregnant wife, and when her daughter was born she named her Deirdre. It seemed appropriate then, all right.
1