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ArchivesI,II,III or Jr...what would my son be?
My Father in Law (deceased) was named Michael Drake (no middle name), his son (my husband) was named after him Michael Steven Drake, we are now having a son and will name him Michael Steven Drake. What does this make my son...II, Jr, Or III.
*To throw a curve, my husbands brother (NOT named Michael, of course) named his son Michael William Drake...what does this make his son, if anything?? Obviously this has caused family friction.
Thanks!
*To throw a curve, my husbands brother (NOT named Michael, of course) named his son Michael William Drake...what does this make his son, if anything?? Obviously this has caused family friction.
Thanks!
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Replies
Jr.
The spider takes hold with her hands, and is in kings' palaces.
The spider takes hold with her hands, and is in kings' palaces.
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Roman numerals and "Jr." are normally only used when the entire name is the same. Therefore, your son would not be a "III" since his grandfather did not have a middle name.
Whether you used II or Jr. for your son depends on whether you want to do what ancient etiquette books tell you is "proper" or whether you want to do what most Americans in fact do. In the past it was often stated that a "II" was named after an uncle or grandfather when the father did NOT have the same name as his son, and that the only "proper" designation for a son with exactly the same name as his father was "Jr.". How that idea developed is a mystery to me. In reality, the huge majority of men with "II" after their names in the USA do have the same name as their fathers, not another relative. And the psychological research on the subject shows that "II" is a better designation than "Jr.". College students with "Jr." after their names show less maturity on psychological tests than average, while there is no such effect for "II". Evidently the connotations of the word "Junior" itself can be negative, giving the image of someone who never quite grows up and also remains inferior to "Senior". "II" on the other hand sounds like part of a "dynasty" and doesn't have the negative connotations of "Junior".
The cousin is not a Jr. and cannot be a "II" after the grandfather because his name is not identical to the grandfather's.
Whether you used II or Jr. for your son depends on whether you want to do what ancient etiquette books tell you is "proper" or whether you want to do what most Americans in fact do. In the past it was often stated that a "II" was named after an uncle or grandfather when the father did NOT have the same name as his son, and that the only "proper" designation for a son with exactly the same name as his father was "Jr.". How that idea developed is a mystery to me. In reality, the huge majority of men with "II" after their names in the USA do have the same name as their fathers, not another relative. And the psychological research on the subject shows that "II" is a better designation than "Jr.". College students with "Jr." after their names show less maturity on psychological tests than average, while there is no such effect for "II". Evidently the connotations of the word "Junior" itself can be negative, giving the image of someone who never quite grows up and also remains inferior to "Senior". "II" on the other hand sounds like part of a "dynasty" and doesn't have the negative connotations of "Junior".
The cousin is not a Jr. and cannot be a "II" after the grandfather because his name is not identical to the grandfather's.
This message was edited 2/26/2006, 5:34 PM
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The above link explains things concerning Jr.
IMHO, unless you are a King, Queen, Emperor, or Emperess, the use of roman numerals is silly
IMHO, unless you are a King, Queen, Emperor, or Emperess, the use of roman numerals is silly
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I understand how Europeans feel that way, but the custom of using Roman numerals for everyday men in the USA has been well-established for over a century now. It's unlikely that Americans are going to see this as being "silly" any time soon.
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Let me rephrase, Professor :)
"IMHO, unless you are a King, Queen, Emperor, Emperess, or an American, the use of roman numerals is silly" ;-)
"IMHO, unless you are a King, Queen, Emperor, Emperess, or an American, the use of roman numerals is silly" ;-)
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ROTFL!
One of my good friends is a III, and his full name is a bland generic thing along the lines of "Peter Matthew Johnson III". That always cracks me up! I wonder why his family thinks that such a boring name, undoubtedly borne by countless Americans, is worth preserving for three generations!
Disclaimer: my friend's name is not Peter Matthew Johnson, of course, but you have to take my word that his real name is as boring as that.
~ Ivayla,
skillfully disguised as a responsible adult
One of my good friends is a III, and his full name is a bland generic thing along the lines of "Peter Matthew Johnson III". That always cracks me up! I wonder why his family thinks that such a boring name, undoubtedly borne by countless Americans, is worth preserving for three generations!
Disclaimer: my friend's name is not Peter Matthew Johnson, of course, but you have to take my word that his real name is as boring as that.
~ Ivayla,
skillfully disguised as a responsible adult
This message was edited 2/27/2006, 12:44 PM
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See here: http://www.behindthename.com/faq.php?type=names#junior.
Miranda
Proud adopter of 15 punctuation marks; see my profile for their names.
Proud adopter of 15 punctuation marks; see my profile for their names.
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give him a name that is his own - not related to parents, as hils using name. Include family names if you like =- to keep the peace. Give him a name that is his alone - he'll appreciate it when he's older!
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