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HelpRidiculous argument over Stephen
I’m in a couple groups on Facebook where people share questionable names found in real life usage.
Every once in a while someone will post a name they think is silly that actually ends up being cultural (for example, a lot of Irish names are posted: think Aoibhe or Aoibheann).
This instance, however, was something I’ve never seen before, here was the exact post:
“Have you ever met someone who pronounced their own name wrong? ��
Example: Stephen.
"Its pronounced Steven" uh no its not � like if you wanna go by the nickname Steve that's fine. But ur name has a PH in it & PH makes the ffffffff sound. Get it Stefen?”
I was floored by the amount of people agreeing with her...
I began going through and explaining the names etymology and Greek origin. She kept trying to counter-argue over and over again with the same demand: “Name one word where the ph is pronounced as a v and I’ll leave Stephen alone.” She kept reiterating that Stephen wasn’t phonetically correct in English, despite people explaining to her its Greek origin and how Greek letter phi came to be pronounced “v” in the case of Stephen in English.
We argued on two different threads and the conversation ended on her end in both cases when she was asked how she pronounced “colonel”, seeing as it’s derived from French and doesn’t “make sense” phonetically in English.
I just thought this was ridiculous and a little bit amusing and have no irl name nerds to share with.
So,
question: how would you have responded to this post (if at all)?
Any thoughts, opinions, etc on the pronunciation or etymology of Stephen?
Hope everyone’s well and staying healthy. :)
Every once in a while someone will post a name they think is silly that actually ends up being cultural (for example, a lot of Irish names are posted: think Aoibhe or Aoibheann).
This instance, however, was something I’ve never seen before, here was the exact post:
“Have you ever met someone who pronounced their own name wrong? ��
Example: Stephen.
"Its pronounced Steven" uh no its not � like if you wanna go by the nickname Steve that's fine. But ur name has a PH in it & PH makes the ffffffff sound. Get it Stefen?”
I was floored by the amount of people agreeing with her...
I began going through and explaining the names etymology and Greek origin. She kept trying to counter-argue over and over again with the same demand: “Name one word where the ph is pronounced as a v and I’ll leave Stephen alone.” She kept reiterating that Stephen wasn’t phonetically correct in English, despite people explaining to her its Greek origin and how Greek letter phi came to be pronounced “v” in the case of Stephen in English.
We argued on two different threads and the conversation ended on her end in both cases when she was asked how she pronounced “colonel”, seeing as it’s derived from French and doesn’t “make sense” phonetically in English.
I just thought this was ridiculous and a little bit amusing and have no irl name nerds to share with.
So,
question: how would you have responded to this post (if at all)?
Any thoughts, opinions, etc on the pronunciation or etymology of Stephen?
Hope everyone’s well and staying healthy. :)
Archived Thread - replies disabled
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Replies
There is an author Gervase Phinn pronounced Jervayz Finn. Despite him correcting more than once someone still insisted on calling him Jervay Fine.
I had both a Steven and a Stephen in my primary school class back in the early 90s. Both pronounced it the same way.
I did have a work colleague a couple of years ago called Emma and she had a brother Stephen pronounced with a V. Emma insisted that Stephen’s friends were being silly when they called him Steve as his name wasn’t spelt with a V never mind the sound of the name. We couldn’t get her to understand that one.
I had both a Steven and a Stephen in my primary school class back in the early 90s. Both pronounced it the same way.
I did have a work colleague a couple of years ago called Emma and she had a brother Stephen pronounced with a V. Emma insisted that Stephen’s friends were being silly when they called him Steve as his name wasn’t spelt with a V never mind the sound of the name. We couldn’t get her to understand that one.
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Well, after a certain point, I wouldn't have responded. I would have logged off and baked muffins, or something. That's what I usually do when I feel like internet arguments are pointless.
This message was edited 7/3/2020, 6:23 PM
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I'd have ignored or blocked her; no point wasting time trying to talk sense to somebody who was clearly a dimwit and a dimwit who likes dumb FB squabbles.
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I enjoy them every once in a while, especially when they’re about harmless topics like this one. :)
I stay away from politics / controversial squabbles for sure though.
I stay away from politics / controversial squabbles for sure though.
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For the english-speaking parts of the world it's Steve Jobs, Steven Spielberg & Stephen Hawking, all STEE-ven, I once learned in school.
Whereas here in Germany there are Stefan, Stephan, Steffen, Stephen, Stefanie & Stephanie, all pronounced the same as SHTEFF-ahn/enn/anie, except Steven=STEE-wenn.
In Greece Stephanos=STEFF-anos, in Italy Stefano=STEFF-ano.
All in all, depends where you're living.
Whereas here in Germany there are Stefan, Stephan, Steffen, Stephen, Stefanie & Stephanie, all pronounced the same as SHTEFF-ahn/enn/anie, except Steven=STEE-wenn.
In Greece Stephanos=STEFF-anos, in Italy Stefano=STEFF-ano.
All in all, depends where you're living.
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I’d give up fairly quickly in an argument where someone is so set in his/her “truth”. But I am terrible at explaining things.
However I love you that you took it on! I think your reasoning made perfectly sense.
However I love you that you took it on! I think your reasoning made perfectly sense.
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As far as I can tell, Americans usually pronounce it with an "f" sound and Brits usually pronounce it with a "v", but I don't know about other countries/accents/dialects.
They're definitely both correct, I'm just amazed that this person hasn't heard of Stephen King or other famous Stephen-pronounced-Stevens.
But the fact is, if his parents named him STEEV-en, the spelling doesn't really matter. I know an Aisling pronounced "AYS-ling". That doesn't mean she pronounces her own name wrong, just that her parents named her AYS-ling but used a spelling that is normally pronounced ASH-ling. Maybe you could say that your parents spelled your name wrong, or spelled it weird, but you can't PRONOUNCE your name wrong because the pronunciation IS the name. A name is "what you're called", which is a sound.
This might be off topic but it reminded me of this -- I know someone named Naomi (nay-O-mi), but one of my friends who is from the eastern US calls her nye-O-mi ("nye" like Bill Nye). That annoyed me because that's not her name. The Eastern friend said "well that's just how we pronounce that name in the East", but this particular person wasn't born in the East, so her name is nay-O-mi, not nye-O-mi! (she doesn't actually care, but I think changing an entire vowel is too much when it's not really because of your language or accent.)
They're definitely both correct, I'm just amazed that this person hasn't heard of Stephen King or other famous Stephen-pronounced-Stevens.
But the fact is, if his parents named him STEEV-en, the spelling doesn't really matter. I know an Aisling pronounced "AYS-ling". That doesn't mean she pronounces her own name wrong, just that her parents named her AYS-ling but used a spelling that is normally pronounced ASH-ling. Maybe you could say that your parents spelled your name wrong, or spelled it weird, but you can't PRONOUNCE your name wrong because the pronunciation IS the name. A name is "what you're called", which is a sound.
This might be off topic but it reminded me of this -- I know someone named Naomi (nay-O-mi), but one of my friends who is from the eastern US calls her nye-O-mi ("nye" like Bill Nye). That annoyed me because that's not her name. The Eastern friend said "well that's just how we pronounce that name in the East", but this particular person wasn't born in the East, so her name is nay-O-mi, not nye-O-mi! (she doesn't actually care, but I think changing an entire vowel is too much when it's not really because of your language or accent.)
This message was edited 7/3/2020, 11:22 AM
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I've never heard anyone pronounce it with an F sound, and I'm American. I've only ever heard it with a v sound. Stefan is the usual spelling if it's pronounced with an F.
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Someone brought up Stephen King and Stephen Hawking, OPs take is yes, they pronounce their names stee-ven, but that they’re pronouncing their own names incorrectly.
I totally agree on your take about not being able to pronounce your own name wrong!
I love the name Naomi (nay), I’m from the US midwest and that’s always how I’ve pronounced it. It is annoying and frankly rude when people don’t even try to pronounce someone’s name correctly, geographical region isn’t an excuse.
I totally agree on your take about not being able to pronounce your own name wrong!
I love the name Naomi (nay), I’m from the US midwest and that’s always how I’ve pronounced it. It is annoying and frankly rude when people don’t even try to pronounce someone’s name correctly, geographical region isn’t an excuse.
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Ugh... people who have never studied something trying to correct somebody who has is the worst.
My ex-mother-in-law insisted we were spelling Theodora wrong. She even went so far as to spell it “Theadora” on the baby shower invitations to try and... I dunno... force our hand? No idea what the logic was there. All of the engraved/embroidered gifts from her side of the family have the wrong spelling, except for some from family members who had their doubts and asked us to confirm.
She insisted that the letter O has NEVER made that sound. I was like “what about the word ‘of’? Or ‘monkey’? ‘Company’? ‘Dove’?” She still insisted I was wrong.
I reminded her that although the name predates our alphabet, once the alphabet was invented, this was the most common way to spell it. For centuries. Nope.
I pointed out the name’s meaning and origin, and reminded her that the “Theo” part represented the word god, as in Theology or Theocracy. I was still the idiot.
Honestly the only thing that wore her down was time.
My ex-mother-in-law insisted we were spelling Theodora wrong. She even went so far as to spell it “Theadora” on the baby shower invitations to try and... I dunno... force our hand? No idea what the logic was there. All of the engraved/embroidered gifts from her side of the family have the wrong spelling, except for some from family members who had their doubts and asked us to confirm.
She insisted that the letter O has NEVER made that sound. I was like “what about the word ‘of’? Or ‘monkey’? ‘Company’? ‘Dove’?” She still insisted I was wrong.
I reminded her that although the name predates our alphabet, once the alphabet was invented, this was the most common way to spell it. For centuries. Nope.
I pointed out the name’s meaning and origin, and reminded her that the “Theo” part represented the word god, as in Theology or Theocracy. I was still the idiot.
Honestly the only thing that wore her down was time.
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That's annoying! I don't even think the O in Theodora actually makes the sound she thought it was making. Like it becomes a schwa in regular speech (which can happen to any vowel with no emphasis on it), but if you were saying Theodora in a long, fancy, proper way (like if she was a princess being announced at a dance or something), I think you would say thee-oh-dor-a?
Nothing wrong with Theadora, but I think Theodora is obviously a feminine form of Theodore, while Theadora seems more like a double name (it looks like it came from Thea and Dora rather than Theodore).
Nothing wrong with Theadora, but I think Theodora is obviously a feminine form of Theodore, while Theadora seems more like a double name (it looks like it came from Thea and Dora rather than Theodore).
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I actually also used the word “of” as an example in the case of Stephen, trying to point out how the ph in Stephen makes the sound of a passive f, the same way the f in “of” does. Some people are just willfully ignorant.
And how awful about your xMIL! I’d be livid if someone intentionally spelled my child’s name wrong, especially on baby shower invitations and with the intention of trying to get others to spell it how she wanted it spelled. I’m sure you handled it a lot better than I would’ve.
Theodora is a beautiful name! It feels so regal and warm. I love all the nickname options as well.
It amazes me how some people think names, spellings, and pronunciations in use for centuries are just wrong.
My sister’s name is Savanna and to this day some people in my family (like my grandpa) never get it right on cards and things. It’s always Savannah, Savanah, Savana, etc.
And how awful about your xMIL! I’d be livid if someone intentionally spelled my child’s name wrong, especially on baby shower invitations and with the intention of trying to get others to spell it how she wanted it spelled. I’m sure you handled it a lot better than I would’ve.
Theodora is a beautiful name! It feels so regal and warm. I love all the nickname options as well.
It amazes me how some people think names, spellings, and pronunciations in use for centuries are just wrong.
My sister’s name is Savanna and to this day some people in my family (like my grandpa) never get it right on cards and things. It’s always Savannah, Savanah, Savana, etc.
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That's infuriating!
I cannot believe she ruined a lot of gifts for your baby with the wrong spelling. It's bizarrely controlling and well, just bizarre.
I cannot believe she ruined a lot of gifts for your baby with the wrong spelling. It's bizarrely controlling and well, just bizarre.
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I would have argued and kept arguing until I had the last word.
To me, Stephen is pronounced with a V sound. In the course of my work, I take names and I have to be certain that I spell them correctly. Many times I have asked a man who has told me that his name is STEE-ven (note the V), "Do you spell that S-T-E-V-E-N?", and am answered, "No, S-T-E-P-H-E-N." I'd say it's about forty percent of the time that I hear STEE-ven. And they've all been American. I actually have been surprised because I thought the Steven spelling was a lot more common in the US than that.
To me, STEF-en is Stefan.
To me, Stephen is pronounced with a V sound. In the course of my work, I take names and I have to be certain that I spell them correctly. Many times I have asked a man who has told me that his name is STEE-ven (note the V), "Do you spell that S-T-E-V-E-N?", and am answered, "No, S-T-E-P-H-E-N." I'd say it's about forty percent of the time that I hear STEE-ven. And they've all been American. I actually have been surprised because I thought the Steven spelling was a lot more common in the US than that.
To me, STEF-en is Stefan.
This message was edited 7/3/2020, 10:13 AM
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Where I live, Stephen is usually STEFF-en (very rarely STEE-ven), and Stefan is either ste-FAHN or STEF-ahn, but either way it has a very clear "AH" sound in the last syllable while Stephen with the F sound has a short, unnoticeable schwa at the end like Steven. You don't even really make the vowel, you almost go straight from the "ph" to the "n" (with maybe a little bit of "ih" like the word "in").
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I usually pronounce it Steven, although I know people who pronounce it like Stefen.
If I were to respond to that post, I would tell her that she was wrong, explain it, and then I’d probably ignore the rest of her argument if she didn’t change her mind and admit she was wrong.
If I were to respond to that post, I would tell her that she was wrong, explain it, and then I’d probably ignore the rest of her argument if she didn’t change her mind and admit she was wrong.
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That’s how I normally go about things like this too, but I had a lot of free time this morning and her “I’m right, you’re wrong” attitude to everyone trying to explain it to her gave me the motivation to go back and forth with her a little bit.
She said that she purposely calls the Stephen she’s talking about in her post Stefan, even though he keeps correcting her and asking her to call him Steven!
She said that she purposely calls the Stephen she’s talking about in her post Stefan, even though he keeps correcting her and asking her to call him Steven!
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That’s horrible! I (kind of) understand mispronouncing the name at first, especially if she knows/knew someone who pronounced it Stefen, but if the person has corrected her, then it’s extremely rude to insist on being wrong.
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