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ArchivesRe: Thanks you!: about Lilou
in reply to a message by Lumia
Thank you so much for this detailed research! It is wonderful to have your expertise for advice on the board.
The possibility of names being changed after birth is always one that has to be kept in mind when investigating when a name was first introduced, isn't it? I am always a bit wary of using the information from the Social Security Death Index in the USA for this, because by the time a person dies, the name they normally go by could be very different from the name their parents gave them at birth. Plus people who officially register births do sometimes make errors. :)
Are you able to get data from INSEE that shows every name given in France in a certain year, even those used only once? That's fantastic if you can. I am hoping to finally be able to obtain such a listing from the state of Nebraska in the USA again for 2007 births; they have not been able to send me such a complete list since 2003.
The possibility of names being changed after birth is always one that has to be kept in mind when investigating when a name was first introduced, isn't it? I am always a bit wary of using the information from the Social Security Death Index in the USA for this, because by the time a person dies, the name they normally go by could be very different from the name their parents gave them at birth. Plus people who officially register births do sometimes make errors. :)
Are you able to get data from INSEE that shows every name given in France in a certain year, even those used only once? That's fantastic if you can. I am hoping to finally be able to obtain such a listing from the state of Nebraska in the USA again for 2007 births; they have not been able to send me such a complete list since 2003.
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Replies
Right now, I'm completely puzzled...
The INSEE publish every year a CD with names statistics, but it is expensive and that is why I don't have it. However, some websites offer this information from INSEE: prenoms.com, aufeminin.com and tous-les-prenoms.com.
In the case of Idescat (Institut d'Estadística de Catalunya), in general, they offer the names with apparitions of five or more (but they mark if the name is between 1 and 5).
For the births since 1996, they offer the detailed list for names with five or more births, but it is possible to see any name, even with a single birth, with the exact amount for that year, with the function "search for a name". For example (I searched the combination "Nua"):
Name....Position....Frequency
Anuar....40....5
Annuar....1,804....1
Mohamed Anuar....4,895....1
Danua....2,568....1
http://www.idescat.net/onomas/Onomas?TC=555&VN=nua&VA=2006
But, returning to Lilou, I double checked and it seems that any name with less of 3 apparitions is not listed in INSEE lists. So it is possible that the first Lilou was born in 1994 as Rapoport says in her book (but how she knows it is a mystery, because the fact is not coming from INSEE statistics). That is not what has puzzled me in this second check.
I carefully noted the amount for year and the supposed total amount in aufeminin.com.
1997: 19
1998: 78
1999: 175
2000: 388
2001: 693
2002: 1,098
2003: 1,764
2004: 2,107
2005: 2,402
2006: 3,213
Supposed total amount: 11,701. But, the real amount if I add all the numbers is 11,937!! A difference of 236 that I don't know how they could have lost.
I don't count the possible existence of 1 to 6 girls named Lilou born between 1994 and 1996 because the variation is very small.
And, most puzzling, at Rapoport's website (meilleursprenoms.fr), she says: "Au début de l'année 2006, 12.746 Françaises portaient ce prénom. (...) De 1900 à nos jours, son année record d'attribution est 2006, avec 3.205 naissances."
The INSEE publish every year a CD with names statistics, but it is expensive and that is why I don't have it. However, some websites offer this information from INSEE: prenoms.com, aufeminin.com and tous-les-prenoms.com.
In the case of Idescat (Institut d'Estadística de Catalunya), in general, they offer the names with apparitions of five or more (but they mark if the name is between 1 and 5).
For the births since 1996, they offer the detailed list for names with five or more births, but it is possible to see any name, even with a single birth, with the exact amount for that year, with the function "search for a name". For example (I searched the combination "Nua"):
Name....Position....Frequency
Anuar....40....5
Annuar....1,804....1
Mohamed Anuar....4,895....1
Danua....2,568....1
http://www.idescat.net/onomas/Onomas?TC=555&VN=nua&VA=2006
But, returning to Lilou, I double checked and it seems that any name with less of 3 apparitions is not listed in INSEE lists. So it is possible that the first Lilou was born in 1994 as Rapoport says in her book (but how she knows it is a mystery, because the fact is not coming from INSEE statistics). That is not what has puzzled me in this second check.
I carefully noted the amount for year and the supposed total amount in aufeminin.com.
1997: 19
1998: 78
1999: 175
2000: 388
2001: 693
2002: 1,098
2003: 1,764
2004: 2,107
2005: 2,402
2006: 3,213
Supposed total amount: 11,701. But, the real amount if I add all the numbers is 11,937!! A difference of 236 that I don't know how they could have lost.
I don't count the possible existence of 1 to 6 girls named Lilou born between 1994 and 1996 because the variation is very small.
And, most puzzling, at Rapoport's website (meilleursprenoms.fr), she says: "Au début de l'année 2006, 12.746 Françaises portaient ce prénom. (...) De 1900 à nos jours, son année record d'attribution est 2006, avec 3.205 naissances."
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