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HelpNames I've decided against
Ophelia, due to the Hamlet association, and Belle, due to a slightly offensive comment a friend made about a little girl we encountered with the name.
What are your thoughts on the names?
Much obliged!
Ottilie
http://www.behindthename.com/pnl/116467
What are your thoughts on the names?
Much obliged!
http://www.behindthename.com/pnl/116467
Archived Thread - replies disabled
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Replies
Awww, I like Ophelia; a gorgeous name, sophistication without the pomp and fluff. But then, most literary associations don't dissuade me from liking names (though strangely they have on occasion made me warm to some). I think I prefer Octavia to it, though.
I like Belle. Not enough to use myself, but I think it's sweet, and much nicer than Bella/Isabelle/Isabella etc.
ETA: I just saw what the Belle comment was, and honestly I think that's why I like Belle more than Bella or other similar names; I always forget that it's linked to beauty, despite the Beauty and the Beast association. Honestly, I usually just remember that Belle as being a book-lovin' peasant girl with a good heart.
Belle speaks to me more of inner beauty than outer beauty, I guess. And that's the kind that matters most, isn't it?
I like Belle. Not enough to use myself, but I think it's sweet, and much nicer than Bella/Isabelle/Isabella etc.
ETA: I just saw what the Belle comment was, and honestly I think that's why I like Belle more than Bella or other similar names; I always forget that it's linked to beauty, despite the Beauty and the Beast association. Honestly, I usually just remember that Belle as being a book-lovin' peasant girl with a good heart.
Belle speaks to me more of inner beauty than outer beauty, I guess. And that's the kind that matters most, isn't it?
This message was edited 11/27/2015, 9:36 AM
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Here in France, Belle is a word, not a name. The titular Beauty of Beauty and the Beast is indeed called Belle in French, but (as with a lot of names of French fairy tale characters) it's not something people actually give to their kids.
I don't think Ophelia is that bad. Ophélie (the French form) is pretty common here. We are familiar with the Hamlet character (she is called Ophélie in French), but Juliette's pretty common here, and Juliet was also a Shakespeare character.
I don't think Ophelia is that bad. Ophélie (the French form) is pretty common here. We are familiar with the Hamlet character (she is called Ophélie in French), but Juliette's pretty common here, and Juliet was also a Shakespeare character.
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I love Ophelia due to my association of her through Hamlet; for me the intensity of the drama enhances the sadness of her fate, which rather endears the name to me.
For Belle - I usually opt for more formal names for the use of shorter nicknames to be granted upon familiarity with the name bearer. Accordingly, I love the name Belinda, due to my association of it with the Linden Tree -- and of course there is a girl I like who I told can proudly bear this name more aptly than I - if I had to exchange my girlish name for another girlish name (this discussion may have generated with Bruce Jenner's name, of which I know nothing); now of course she prefers that I call her Belinda. She also informed me that her mom nearly named her that but for other reasons assigned a different name.
For Belle - I usually opt for more formal names for the use of shorter nicknames to be granted upon familiarity with the name bearer. Accordingly, I love the name Belinda, due to my association of it with the Linden Tree -- and of course there is a girl I like who I told can proudly bear this name more aptly than I - if I had to exchange my girlish name for another girlish name (this discussion may have generated with Bruce Jenner's name, of which I know nothing); now of course she prefers that I call her Belinda. She also informed me that her mom nearly named her that but for other reasons assigned a different name.
This message was edited 11/27/2015, 7:44 AM
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You know, if you overthink literal meanings you might have to clean out your list, which probably has a lot of names with apparently flattering meanings, or otherwise meanings unlikely to fit the bearer. The pathetic one isn't the plain girl named Belle, it's the ninny who critiqued the girl's face on hearing her name. Belle need not be about a pretty face, that's so shallow! Ugh. It's about the kind of beauty you see when you love someone. Like Desiree doesn't mean "woman you sexually desire" except to total ninnies. It means "child who fulfilled her parents' desire." So let the ninnies be ninnies, and like Belle if you like it. It's short for Isabelle, anyway.
I'm not a fan of Belle but I think Bell is a cool middle name.
Ophelia I agree is not very appealing because of its tight association with the tragic character (and because of oh feel ya). Too bad, because it's a lovely name otherwise.
I'm not a fan of Belle but I think Bell is a cool middle name.
Ophelia I agree is not very appealing because of its tight association with the tragic character (and because of oh feel ya). Too bad, because it's a lovely name otherwise.
This message was edited 11/26/2015, 1:48 PM
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I like them on paper, but I would never use them myself. I can see why you would veto them.
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Ophelia I never cared for and it has nothing to do with Shakespeare association. I can't say I've been much of a fan of him or his works, which is probably "taboo" for a girl to admit. haha.
Opelia sounds clunky and I can't get past the teasing association made up upon the name. Oh-feel-ya" yeah...no thank you.
Belle: not horrible. It just makes a way better middle IMO.
Opelia sounds clunky and I can't get past the teasing association made up upon the name. Oh-feel-ya" yeah...no thank you.
Belle: not horrible. It just makes a way better middle IMO.
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Total agreement on Ophelia. It's oppressively negative, and I feel it is wedded to this idea of "girls in crisis."
I like Belle despite knowing it wouldn't always be easy to have a name that so obviously connotes beauty. It's sweet, simple, and Southern.
I like Belle despite knowing it wouldn't always be easy to have a name that so obviously connotes beauty. It's sweet, simple, and Southern.
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the Belle comment
I already explained in response to vekalvin, but essentially my friend felt the child we saw was too unattractive to be named Belle.
I already explained in response to vekalvin, but essentially my friend felt the child we saw was too unattractive to be named Belle.
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It might have been an unappropriate comment to make, especially in relation to a child, but basically that's why I dislike names with meanings too obviously related to beauty.
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Belle does have a pretentious feel to it. And it might mean beautiful, but to me it has a very frumpy, dowdy and downmarket image.
It's always funny when people on here go "My new baby is here! He has the blondest curly hair and blue eyes and he looks just like Simon Turnover from the new Doctor Who spinoff so we're naming him Simon!" The chances are good to excellent that little Simon 1. Looks like Simon Turnover only in the still-doped mind of his mama 2. will shed his blond curls in a few months and end up with mousy brown hair and rather faded gray-blue eys 3. Nobody will remember the new Doctor Who spinoff or Simon Turnover for longer than a year.
Or like naming your daughter Lexus Armani Chanel is almost a dead giveaway that the family cannot possibly afford any of those things, because those who do, don't usually name their kids after them.
A beautiful Belle would almost seem contrived, like she was using a stage/pen/screen name. A plain or even homely Belle would be the norm.
It's always funny when people on here go "My new baby is here! He has the blondest curly hair and blue eyes and he looks just like Simon Turnover from the new Doctor Who spinoff so we're naming him Simon!" The chances are good to excellent that little Simon 1. Looks like Simon Turnover only in the still-doped mind of his mama 2. will shed his blond curls in a few months and end up with mousy brown hair and rather faded gray-blue eys 3. Nobody will remember the new Doctor Who spinoff or Simon Turnover for longer than a year.
Or like naming your daughter Lexus Armani Chanel is almost a dead giveaway that the family cannot possibly afford any of those things, because those who do, don't usually name their kids after them.
A beautiful Belle would almost seem contrived, like she was using a stage/pen/screen name. A plain or even homely Belle would be the norm.
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Aw, that is mean. Ugly kids often grow up very attractive. Look at the Harry Potter gang. Who ever knew Neville would turn out so well? I think there is hope for Belle.
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That's what I said! Most kiddies go through an unattractive phase, but even so, I wouldn't want to risk it.
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I think Ophelia is wonderful. I really wasn't into it until a few months ago, when I realized there isn't any name that conjures that many colors for me as Ophelia. There's a lot to be said for the meaning too, which is really what drew me in: "help". Maybe it's the Beatle fan in me, or the empathy I feel for Ophelia's character, but I feel that "help" is one of the most imperative words in the English language (especially surrounding mental illness, tbh). Asking for help, giving help, doesn't matter - I just really love that association.
Belle is bad, I do not have many nice words about Belle. What was the offensive comment your friend made?
Belle is bad, I do not have many nice words about Belle. What was the offensive comment your friend made?
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Is the offensive Belle comment to do with bellies? I will add that name to my "fat names" list. I find it pretty, and more interesting than Bella.
I am a huge weirdo in that the Hamlet association is the only reason I like Ophelia at all. It gives it so much delicious baggage. It makes so many statements about the parents. It's so over-the-top Gothic teenager.
I am a huge weirdo in that the Hamlet association is the only reason I like Ophelia at all. It gives it so much delicious baggage. It makes so many statements about the parents. It's so over-the-top Gothic teenager.
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I admire that critique of "It's so over-the-top Gothic teenager".
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Neither one of those names is a big loss. Ophelia sounds so puffed-up and full of itself, and of course there's always the old jokes about Ophelia Butt and worse.
Belle is just ugly. Like a milk cow, or a slave, or something.
Belle is just ugly. Like a milk cow, or a slave, or something.
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Drowned herself or was drowned, still not great :-/
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No, I know, I just think it's an interesting question from a literary perspective. I'm doing some work on Shakespeare as we speak is all :)
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I like Ophelia
Don't let the hamlet association put you off.
As for belle just find it a bit too insubstantial as a full name. What was the offensive comment on belle?
Don't let the hamlet association put you off.
As for belle just find it a bit too insubstantial as a full name. What was the offensive comment on belle?
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The Hamlet association is very off-putting for an English student, I'm afraid. I've seen the recent National Theatre Live production of the play a number of times now, and each time the portrayal of Ophelia is more and more distressing. A girl being driven to insanity after the death of her father and eventually drowning is not an association I relish.
The comment was that Belle was inappropriate for the little girl in question.
The comment was that Belle was inappropriate for the little girl in question.
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