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ArchivesRe: Japanese names & media
in reply to a message by Felie
These are good questions. Whenever you transcribe words or names from one script into another, you can run into these kinds of difficulties.
To begin, the names you listed are not written in kanji (Chinese characters) but in katakana, one of the Japanese syllabaries. Japanese has a particularly rigid syllabic structure: there are no consonant clusters and no final consonants other than -N *. Many consonants which appear in Western languages don't exist, and certain consonant + vowel combinations which would seem possible don't exist, such as "si" (as in English "see").
So, a name written in katakana can be often mapped on to multiple names in the Roman alphabet. In English or Italian, Risa and Lisa would be pronounced differently, but in Japanese, they both become リサ. In Japanese, ジュビア is Jubia. But it could also represent Juvia, since /v/ becomes /b/ in Japanese. Neither one is incorrect.
From reading the transcriptions, I feel that the anime writers either had an existing English/Italian name in mind when they named their characters, or made an effort first to create a name which looked "Western." Otherwise there would be no reason, as you stated, for ウルティア Urutia to become Ultear and ラクサス Rakusasu to become Luxus. They only make sense if you go the other way around; starting with Ultear and Luxus, and then transcribing them into katakana.
* Strictly speaking, final -N is considered a syllable, so, for instance, "Shun" is two syllables. But for convenience we can ignore that.
To begin, the names you listed are not written in kanji (Chinese characters) but in katakana, one of the Japanese syllabaries. Japanese has a particularly rigid syllabic structure: there are no consonant clusters and no final consonants other than -N *. Many consonants which appear in Western languages don't exist, and certain consonant + vowel combinations which would seem possible don't exist, such as "si" (as in English "see").
So, a name written in katakana can be often mapped on to multiple names in the Roman alphabet. In English or Italian, Risa and Lisa would be pronounced differently, but in Japanese, they both become リサ. In Japanese, ジュビア is Jubia. But it could also represent Juvia, since /v/ becomes /b/ in Japanese. Neither one is incorrect.
From reading the transcriptions, I feel that the anime writers either had an existing English/Italian name in mind when they named their characters, or made an effort first to create a name which looked "Western." Otherwise there would be no reason, as you stated, for ウルティア Urutia to become Ultear and ラクサス Rakusasu to become Luxus. They only make sense if you go the other way around; starting with Ultear and Luxus, and then transcribing them into katakana.
* Strictly speaking, final -N is considered a syllable, so, for instance, "Shun" is two syllables. But for convenience we can ignore that.
This message was edited 10/16/2018, 11:42 AM
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Replies
Hi ClaudiaS !!!
You told me all I need and very clearly!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge of Japanese language. You were very helpful.
So now I can judge this kind of names and try to guess the original thought behind them! Ahahah
You told me all I need and very clearly!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge of Japanese language. You were very helpful.
So now I can judge this kind of names and try to guess the original thought behind them! Ahahah
1
Thanks for the great information you always give on Japanese naming!
An older example of the back and forth between Japanese and European languages I know of is Rinoa. This name has occasionally been given to American girls ever since it was used for a character in the English language version of the video game Final Fantasy VIII. As I understand it, the character was originally named by its Japanese creator with the French/English name Lenore -- but "Rinoa" was how that came out in katakana, and those who translated the game into English didn't realize this was just a Japanization of Lenore and so used Rinoa for the character in the American video game.
An older example of the back and forth between Japanese and European languages I know of is Rinoa. This name has occasionally been given to American girls ever since it was used for a character in the English language version of the video game Final Fantasy VIII. As I understand it, the character was originally named by its Japanese creator with the French/English name Lenore -- but "Rinoa" was how that came out in katakana, and those who translated the game into English didn't realize this was just a Japanization of Lenore and so used Rinoa for the character in the American video game.
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Hi !!!
This is what I think has happened with Lluvia (rain) that became Jubia in Katakana and the name Elsa that in Japanese was Eruza. Only Italians use Elsa For the character while in English is Erza. I think that was the same of Lenore: is Elsa the real name and English writers did not realize It so they kept Erza.
This is what I think has happened with Lluvia (rain) that became Jubia in Katakana and the name Elsa that in Japanese was Eruza. Only Italians use Elsa For the character while in English is Erza. I think that was the same of Lenore: is Elsa the real name and English writers did not realize It so they kept Erza.
This message was edited 10/16/2018, 1:15 PM
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No knowledge of Japanese here, but I'd agree with your guess that the Italian names and not the English ones were the original ones.
The Italian names are all real names, real surnames, or connect to words (like Luxus).
The English ones are meaningless.
So my guess is that it started with the Japanese names --> transliterated into Japanese, using Japanese pronunciation rules for those same sounds --> and then the English came from how English speakers hear the Japanese.
Such as Elsa --> Eruza --> Erza. Elsa is a name in English too, but they didn't go there. They took it from the Japanese and kept it meaningless.
Same for Jeraru. They didn't go back to Gerard, a name in English. Instead they "heard" L and made Jellal out of it.
This is like a naming game of telephone! :) . Thank you for this fun puzzle.
The Italian names are all real names, real surnames, or connect to words (like Luxus).
The English ones are meaningless.
So my guess is that it started with the Japanese names --> transliterated into Japanese, using Japanese pronunciation rules for those same sounds --> and then the English came from how English speakers hear the Japanese.
Such as Elsa --> Eruza --> Erza. Elsa is a name in English too, but they didn't go there. They took it from the Japanese and kept it meaningless.
Same for Jeraru. They didn't go back to Gerard, a name in English. Instead they "heard" L and made Jellal out of it.
This is like a naming game of telephone! :) . Thank you for this fun puzzle.
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