Message: "Is the name Guy related to the word "guide"?"

Is the name Guy related to the word "guide"?

by EncyclopediaBrown

6/15/2019, 2:31 PM

The name Guy is a male name that is the Norman French form of Wido. The name Wido comes from the Germanic elements witu meaning "wood" or wit meaning "wide". I wondered though about an alternative place that the name Wido may have possibly come from.

Quite a few sources describe what the etymology of the English word "guide" is.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/guide

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guide

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/guide

These sources mention that "guide" comes from either Frankish "witan" or Old Occitan "guida", both of them coming from the Proto-Germanic word "witanan" which means "to look after, guard, ascribe to, reproach". They also say that the English language word "wit" is related to "guide". I was wondering if the roots "witanan" or "witan" may be related to the given name Wido.

On another note, I also wondered if the Occitan root "guida" was related to the Latinate form of Wido, Guido.

This message was edited 6/15/2019, 2:35 PM

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- elbowin +6

6/17/2019, 2:57 AM

No, it isn't. Looking up the two words in the wiktionary, we come to the Proto-Germanic roots *wītaną for the verb "to guide" and *widuz for the name Guido cognate to modern English "wood". The difference in the second consonant is significant and indicates unrelated root words. Also there is no semantic connection between them. For getting the consonants right it is necessary to look which Germanic language is taken as the source, there were a lot of consonant shifts during the history of Germanic languages.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/w%C4%ABtan%C4%85
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/widuz

--elbowin

- EncyclopediaBrown +5

6/17/2019, 3:03 PM

I see what you mean about the second consonants. However, the BtN definition for Guido directs to Wido. The etymology of Wido is said to "witu" (wood) or "wit" (wide). Those elements had the same second consonant as wītaną.

That said though, it does appear that the Proto-Germanic root "widuz" evolved into Old High German "witu", whereas the root "wītaną" evolved into the Old High German "wīzzan". Where there are different second consonants in the Old High German roots. Thank you for your help!

Is it significant in the disconnect of the two roots that Proto-Germanic is not the same thing as Old High German?

- thegriffon +3

6/25/2019, 7:38 AM

listing the Germanic root as "witu" or "wit" is erroneous and should be corrected, as these are later German cognates of the roots. the roots are long vowel "wid-" (wide, vast, unlimited), and the short-vowel "widu" (wood, with the u-stem causing breaking, umlaut and lengthening in English). In dithematic (compounded) names you can expect to see a difference between names written e.g. Widbald (long i) and Widubald (short i) [generally one-syllable roots with a short vowel are compounded without a connecting vowel, and short-vowel protothemes will gain a connecting vowel from the oblique case. The -u of Widu is a remnant of the declension, not the root). Since the surviving names preserve a long i (an EE sound), we can assume the root is "wid-" (wide), rather than the short vowel widu (wood). The final -o of Wido is an old suffix root forming names from nouns and adjectives. Old High German is relatively late, recorded in the 9th C, primarily in a very few monasteries (and a different dialect region than modern Standard German). Proto-Germanic we can assume represents a hypothetical core dating to before the 2nd century. By the 2nd Century we already have clear divisions between the Eastern and Western branches, and by the 4th we can see regional/tribal variations. Aside from a few inscriptions, the majority of the Germanic languages were not recorded until quite late, as the "Germanic" rulers of continental Europe considered themselves inheritors of the Roman empire and most documents were in Latin, even if the vernacular, domestic language was Burgundian, Gothic, Vandal, Frankish, Lombard, Alemannic, Saxon etc..

This message was edited 6/25/2019, 7:50 AM

- Mike C

6/27/2019, 11:43 AM

I will look into the spelling of these roots for the next update, thanks!

- EncyclopediaBrown +1

6/26/2019, 3:37 PM

Thank you for this information on Germanic names thegriffon. I can see how Wido follows the conventions of Otto, Arno, Waldo etc., with the -o suffix. I'm curious, when did Latin begin to shift towards the Germanic languages being used officially in continental Europe? Thank you for your help.

This message was edited 6/26/2019, 3:38 PM

- thegriffon

7/4/2019, 7:00 AM

In many parts of Europe of course, it didn't. Even as increasing volumes were written in the vernacular German or Romance dialects, forms of Latin very different from the Classical Latin of Ovid and Pliny continued (and sometimes continue) to be used by certain professional classes to prevent people from avoiding their economically non-productive services. This often included official legal documents - birth records, deeds, charters etc.. But at the same time as Latin became a professional jargon, economic and social forces encouraged a switch from Latin to the vernacular for other communications — a collection of bawdy tales may have a wider market if written in the vernacular rather than Latin for example, and not require the tedious translation from the vernacular to literary Latin.

- elbowin

6/18/2019, 7:41 AM

Yes, it is. Old High Germanic exhibits the "Zweite Lautverschiebung" (second sound shift) that differentiates it from the other Germanic languages. This sound shift affects most of the consonants: *t becomes z /ts/ initially and s in the middle of a word, *p becomes pf or f, *d becomes t, *b becomes p, *th becomes d, *k becomes /x/ in the middle of the word, and some more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_German_consonant_shift

--elbowin

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