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Help[Opinions] Re: Jemima
in reply to a message by PrincessZ
No, the US isn't the center of the world. However, if I found out that a name I liked was associated heavily with racism, chattel slavery, lynching, and the continued persecution of a minority population originally kidnapped and brought there in chains, I sure as hell wouldn't want to use it. I recognize that a lot of people feel a lot of disdain for the US and its citizens' ethnocentrism, and I think it's justified. A lot of us don't like the country any more than you do. But it's not really about that, anymore than refusing to use a name associated with the British empire's centuries of tyranny would be a tacit acceptance or bolstering of current sentiments of British exceptionalismism / England as the master culture. It's about solidarity with an oppressed group.
I get that lots of people don't know about the association between the name and the racist caricature / slur, but it seems willfully, almost obstinately callous to ignore the implications of you are aware of them.
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I get that lots of people don't know about the association between the name and the racist caricature / slur, but it seems willfully, almost obstinately callous to ignore the implications of you are aware of them.
This message was edited 9/27/2020, 11:30 AM
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Replies
The implications of Jemima here are completely different. Most of us have grown up with a positive connotation of the name Jemima because our most popular kids show has a main character/doll named Jemima, or the popular Peter Rabbit series has Jemima puddle duck.
I grew up with two friends named Jemima, so it's still very much useable here. I don't fully understand the whole Aunt Jemima thing as it's something that I had literally never heard about before being on these boards.
I would still use it because of the positive associations we have with the name.
I grew up with two friends named Jemima, so it's still very much useable here. I don't fully understand the whole Aunt Jemima thing as it's something that I had literally never heard about before being on these boards.
I would still use it because of the positive associations we have with the name.
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Would lots of black, white or whatever other possible variation little girls named Jemima not launch a rehabilitation programme? Jemima is a respectable biblical name with a good eytmology; why allow the long-ago choice of an advertising agency to consign it to limbo? It seems to me that there is a weird resemblance between this Jemima controversy, if that is what it is, and some people's public denialism about, say, wearing masks: their personal decision to do what they like takes precedence over science, sense and reason. I hope I'm wrong. But it does look strange from outside.
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I'd say that if anyone should attempt to reclaim the name, it should be those who the name has been used against, just like LGBTQ people have reclaimed "queer."
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not likely ...
I very much doubt that any black parents within my lifetime or the lifetime of even the youngest posters on this board will do that.
I very much doubt that any black parents within my lifetime or the lifetime of even the youngest posters on this board will do that.
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I doubt it too. I was just making the point that I don't think a bunch of white people using it would rub the stain off the name.
This message was edited 9/27/2020, 1:36 PM
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I agree. Jemima is a name more than the one stereotypical instance, as is Remus (Uncle Remus). NOBODY is harping on Remus despite the decades-long slamming of Song of the South. There's many people out there with the name Jemima. Should they legally change their names now?
We're talking about the use of a name of a brand of syrup that exists in one country vs the rest of the world, AND the entire history of Jemima uses.
We're talking about the use of a name of a brand of syrup that exists in one country vs the rest of the world, AND the entire history of Jemima uses.
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Well, no ones harping on Remus because no one uses the name Remus. Just like almost no one uses Jemima here.
I also agree with Martha that your remark about people changing their names was way divergent from the original argument and has nothing to do with anything.
But I agree with you that it’s not a big deal in England where the brand doesn’t exist.
And I did read the thread on the lounge about how the ancestors of Jemima feel about it and it gave me more nuanced opinions of the situation overall. I wouldn’t speak on behalf of black ppl about whether using the name is offensive/hurtful to them or not. Just for me personally, my first association is a black nanny brand image and I wouldn’t feel comfortable using it - not bc its offensive to others, but bc it turns me off personally.
I also agree with Martha that your remark about people changing their names was way divergent from the original argument and has nothing to do with anything.
But I agree with you that it’s not a big deal in England where the brand doesn’t exist.
And I did read the thread on the lounge about how the ancestors of Jemima feel about it and it gave me more nuanced opinions of the situation overall. I wouldn’t speak on behalf of black ppl about whether using the name is offensive/hurtful to them or not. Just for me personally, my first association is a black nanny brand image and I wouldn’t feel comfortable using it - not bc its offensive to others, but bc it turns me off personally.
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That's fair. I re read my post and other's posts and I think I misread or misunderstood something, it does seem very divergent.
I do agree that now I'm very aware of the association, rather than it, say, being a passing news article heading, I'd be less inclined to use it myself. However I wouldn't feel like other's were being insensitive at all if they did... unless they're American and in which case I hope it was honorific.
I do agree that now I'm very aware of the association, rather than it, say, being a passing news article heading, I'd be less inclined to use it myself. However I wouldn't feel like other's were being insensitive at all if they did... unless they're American and in which case I hope it was honorific.
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What a jump to make. No one said anything about changing anyone's name. That argumentative tactic has further undercut your original argument in my eyes.
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But you are implying that any use of the name would be insensitive, period, no matter if they lived in England nor China. It seems silly to impose this on everybody else when we don't have the same associations.
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I'm saying that use by anyone who knows about the racist associations with the names is callous. That means someone doing the naming, not someone with the name.
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What if they're naming their kid after their late mother or grandmother? Is that still considered callous?
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Hmm, well, if they were aware, I'd probably think it was a little insensitive, yes. I wouldn't think someone who used the name was a horrible person or a racist. I'd think "I don't like with this person's choice. I think it's insensitive" and I'd move on.
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Okay I suppose that's fair enough. I personally disagree with the level of insensitivity the use would have outside the US, but that's alright :)
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