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Help[Opinions] Re: African-American section
in reply to a message by Kitandkat
...because Asian-Americans typically use either an English name (I saw a BA for an Asian baby named Kashton), or a name from whichever Asian culture they came from (I saw a BA for an Asian baby named Moo [which may be Korean, Thai, or Malaysian]). It's not a trait of Asian-American culture to make up new names the way it is for African Americans (Asian Americans know which country they're from, which is not often the case with African Americans).
Do you think taking the "African-American" usage off the site will stop people from calling AA names "ghetto"? Because if someone thinks Tanisha (or whatever) is "ghetto", they're going to think that whether BtN has it labled as African American or not.
Starlight Nocturne Silver
www.behindthename.com/pnl/59411
Archived Thread - replies disabled
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Replies
I for one know a Tanisha, and she is white as hell XD idk why people always jump to assumptions
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I just picked a random name off the African American list; if you check the comments on many of these names you'll find "This is my name and I'm white" or similar.
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iirc, the name Jonquil- literally the name of a flower- has like, three separate comments at least calling it ghetto. so yeah, while labeling a name as African American helps create that impression to racists (since they're automatically put off by that), they already have ridiculous notions of what that is.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 2:05 PM
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Check the names Tory(1) and Tory(2). The Tory labeled African-American is rated at 44% and the Tory labeled English is 52%. Care to explain?
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The explanation is some people are racist. But to deny that African-American names exist and to deny that they should be categorized so as to avoid seeing racist remarks solves nothing.
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Because people are racist. But BtN correctly labeling African-American names as African-American is not going to stop the racism rampant on the Internet.
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Yeah, here's your explanation:
The ratings are not the view of the website. They are voted on by people. You can go and vote on it right now.
You may have noticed this, but some people are racist! And some people might just think Tory is a bad name for any other reason. Maybe they think it's too feminine for a man. Maybe the Tor sound makes them think of the dark web. Maybe it reminds them of their ex. Maybe they don't like that it rhymes with Snore-y. Maybe they have an irrational dislike of the letter T. Could be anything.
Honestly don't know what you want at this point.
The ratings are not the view of the website. They are voted on by people. You can go and vote on it right now.
You may have noticed this, but some people are racist! And some people might just think Tory is a bad name for any other reason. Maybe they think it's too feminine for a man. Maybe the Tor sound makes them think of the dark web. Maybe it reminds them of their ex. Maybe they don't like that it rhymes with Snore-y. Maybe they have an irrational dislike of the letter T. Could be anything.
Honestly don't know what you want at this point.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 1:10 PM
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There is no need for the African-American section to exist.There's already an American section. Why don't you just put it there?
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They already are part of the American section: https://www.behindthename.com/names/usage/american
But it also a completely separate culture that has it's own naming styles and it deserves to have it's own usage.
And I'm not even in charge of the main database.
But it also a completely separate culture that has it's own naming styles and it deserves to have it's own usage.
And I'm not even in charge of the main database.
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They have no connection to African culture. They are purely made up American names.
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Yes, they're connected to African-American culture, which is separate from both African culture and American culture. It's it's own thing.
Look:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_names
The category isn't going anywhere. Let it go.
Look:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_names
The category isn't going anywhere. Let it go.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 1:44 PM
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That's cool. I really wasn't trying to change anything. I was just stating my opinion(which is what Name Opinions message board is for). But you came and asked me what I wanted. I was just voicing my opinion l, that's all. I'm truly sorry if I came off the wrong way to you.
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Why does it have African in it?
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African Americans have a naming style that’s entirely unique to them, which is why these names have their own section on BtN. If Keshia was only listed as American racists most likely would still have negative things to say about it because it’s mostly used among African Americans.
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Are you really this obtuse?
It has the word "African" in it because African-Americans exist. They exist and they are not the same as European-Americans or Asian-Americans or any other Whatever-Americans there are. One thing African-Americans have done, unlike other Whatever-Americans, is to create their own naming culture. And they did this as a reaction to centuries of bondage and discrimination. And if you want to ask why African-Americans did this as opposed to the other races and groups, it's because, while other races and groups have experienced discrimination in America, none other have experienced it for so long a time and to the degree that African-Americans have.
So some people are racist and some people see an African-American name and automatically think "ghetto" and "trashy." They do this because they are racist. They are. The names in and of themselves are not racist, and those who categorize the names are not racist.
It actually shows a lack of respect for African-American culture to insist that there is no such thing as an African-American name and/or insist that they shouldn't be categorized as such.
If you are really offended, then you should target the correct people, the people making the racist "ghetto" and "trashy" statements. What you are doing is akin to arguing that all blacks should be moved back to Africa so that whites won't be tempted to act racist towards them.
It has the word "African" in it because African-Americans exist. They exist and they are not the same as European-Americans or Asian-Americans or any other Whatever-Americans there are. One thing African-Americans have done, unlike other Whatever-Americans, is to create their own naming culture. And they did this as a reaction to centuries of bondage and discrimination. And if you want to ask why African-Americans did this as opposed to the other races and groups, it's because, while other races and groups have experienced discrimination in America, none other have experienced it for so long a time and to the degree that African-Americans have.
So some people are racist and some people see an African-American name and automatically think "ghetto" and "trashy." They do this because they are racist. They are. The names in and of themselves are not racist, and those who categorize the names are not racist.
It actually shows a lack of respect for African-American culture to insist that there is no such thing as an African-American name and/or insist that they shouldn't be categorized as such.
If you are really offended, then you should target the correct people, the people making the racist "ghetto" and "trashy" statements. What you are doing is akin to arguing that all blacks should be moved back to Africa so that whites won't be tempted to act racist towards them.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 2:11 PM
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Sorry if you got that. That's not my point. My point is that I just don't think it should be associated with Africa since the names aren't from African names. You really didn't have to insult me to get your point through.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 2:58 PM
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The names are not associated with Africa, and nobody on this site says they are. They are associated with African-Americans. If the correct term for African-Americans did not include the word "African", then the title of the name category would not include it, either.
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The term Black Americans could be used. Anyways, this message board wasn't to get something changed. I was just stating my opinion.
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I agree that it's confusing, how usage and origin are distinguished on this website. It's not obvious that that is what's up. Like if you go to the Browse Names page, and look at the list of "Usage," there's no "African-American" listed. But there's an African (languages) list. There's not even an "American" listed. The reason is because that list is really origins, like linguistic or etymological - not usages.
African-American is supposed to refer to usage, not language of origin. That's supposed to be true of all the other usages marked on the individual name pages too, but it's probably a little inconsistent. Like, Mila is not marked as a French usage - but it was the sixth most popular name in France in 2016, so it really should be. But just because a name is listed as one usage, doesn't mean that other usages are excluded (many names listed African-American have been used by both black and non-black Americans).
The usage category is called "African-American" just because that's currently the term that seems to be preferred. It could as well be Black American.
African-American is supposed to refer to usage, not language of origin. That's supposed to be true of all the other usages marked on the individual name pages too, but it's probably a little inconsistent. Like, Mila is not marked as a French usage - but it was the sixth most popular name in France in 2016, so it really should be. But just because a name is listed as one usage, doesn't mean that other usages are excluded (many names listed African-American have been used by both black and non-black Americans).
The usage category is called "African-American" just because that's currently the term that seems to be preferred. It could as well be Black American.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 3:46 PM
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Thank you.
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Ghetto? Do you think that's all that's wrong with it? Go check the comments for yourself.
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Why aren't you arguing with those people? Why don't you hit racism where it exists instead of hitting the people who know that not being racist doesn't mean you're blind to race?
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What's the point? You don't have to come at me. I was just stating my opinion.
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The point is that you seem to object to the practice of categorizing African-American names because it brings out the racism in racists, yet instead of that making you angry at the racists, you complain to the people who categorized the names. Not literally, in that I don't think that anyone who has responded to you had a literal hand in categorizing the names, but you are targeting the site.
I think it's useful to point this out to you. That's the reason I've responded.
I think it's useful to point this out to you. That's the reason I've responded.
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1.) I was stating MY opinion, not targeting the site
2.) No, it's not useful to point this out to me. Thanks fot caring, anyways
3.) Again, missing the point.I don't like it because it wrongly associated with Africa, even though the names(except Shaniqua) are not from any African languages. They're just prefixes like -la and -de added to French, Spanish or Russian names, or different spellings of those names. There is nothing African in those names.
2.) No, it's not useful to point this out to me. Thanks fot caring, anyways
3.) Again, missing the point.I don't like it because it wrongly associated with Africa, even though the names(except Shaniqua) are not from any African languages. They're just prefixes like -la and -de added to French, Spanish or Russian names, or different spellings of those names. There is nothing African in those names.
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This, "I object only to the use of the word 'African' because the names are not African" cry you've taken up now is totally not what you said when you started this thread.
You said:
I don't like the fact that there is an African-American section on this website. The names in the section are usually called trashy and ghetto. Yes, a lot of the names there are not the best, but I feel that there is a deeper meaning to the comments.
ALL of the names are called GHETTO. Only the names on this section are called GHETTO. Put 2 and 2 together.
Check the names Tory(1) and Tory(2). The Tory labeled African-American is rated at 44% and the Tory labeled English is 52%. Care to explain?
Then you changed your tune because you were being backed into a corner. But the fact that you changed your tune means it was useful to point all of this out to you, I guess.
You said:
I don't like the fact that there is an African-American section on this website. The names in the section are usually called trashy and ghetto. Yes, a lot of the names there are not the best, but I feel that there is a deeper meaning to the comments.
ALL of the names are called GHETTO. Only the names on this section are called GHETTO. Put 2 and 2 together.
Check the names Tory(1) and Tory(2). The Tory labeled African-American is rated at 44% and the Tory labeled English is 52%. Care to explain?
Then you changed your tune because you were being backed into a corner. But the fact that you changed your tune means it was useful to point all of this out to you, I guess.
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about Tory
"Check the names Tory(1) and Tory(2). The Tory labeled African-American is rated at 44% and the Tory labeled English is 52%. Care to explain?"
Was this edited out? I haven't seen it in the thread. I haven't read the whole thing, though...
Anyway, I'd guess the lower rating for the Tory listed as African-American has more to do with gender; it's a NN for Salvatore. When I was growing up, the only other (than me) Tory I knew was actually a black guy, but most people think of it as feminine because Victoria's much more common than Salvatore.
Names used for guys that are perceived as feminine are not widely popular.
"Check the names Tory(1) and Tory(2). The Tory labeled African-American is rated at 44% and the Tory labeled English is 52%. Care to explain?"
Was this edited out? I haven't seen it in the thread. I haven't read the whole thing, though...
Anyway, I'd guess the lower rating for the Tory listed as African-American has more to do with gender; it's a NN for Salvatore. When I was growing up, the only other (than me) Tory I knew was actually a black guy, but most people think of it as feminine because Victoria's much more common than Salvatore.
Names used for guys that are perceived as feminine are not widely popular.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 4:39 PM
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No, it's still there, in response to irene above:
https://www.behindthename.com/bb/baby/4938865
https://www.behindthename.com/bb/baby/4938865
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If they were called American and ghetto, I wouldn't really care. But as I am African, I don't know why these names(that are labelled as ghetto) are being associated with Africa. That was my entire point.
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No, it wasn't, but okay.
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I like the fact that you just tried to explain to me what I myself was thinking, like you were in my brain But you so got it so very wrong. Stop trying to assume already.
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I'm not assuming anything. I know what you were thinking from your own words. If your only concern from the get-go was that the names have the word "African" within their category title when they are not African, then care to explain why you said what I quoted?
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I said that because the names being called ghetto and rated low have African(African-American) in it, and I am African. There's already enough bad things people say about Africa without this being added to it.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 3:40 PM
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American racists are racists whether the term is "African-American" or "black". American racists think anything African is inferior no matter what it's called. Again, your quarrel is with white American racists, not with the term African-American.
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That's where you're wrong. A lot of African-Americans insult and degrade Africans too, not just white Americans.
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A lot of white Americans insult and degrade Europe and Europeans. We love ourselves here lol.
Bottom line, you don't have the right to decide what African-Americans are called.
Bottom line, you don't have the right to decide what African-Americans are called.
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Assuming again, aren't we? I never said I had the right. Of course, African-Americans are called that because they are descended from Africans.But the names are not from African names, which is a fact. Bottom line.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 3:53 PM
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If you don't think you have the right, then why did you bring it up? If you don't think you have the right, then why did you take the site to task for the category?
"Assume" is your favorite word. Any time I address what you say, I'm "assuming".
There's no having a rational discussion with someone like you, therefore, I am done.
"Assume" is your favorite word. Any time I address what you say, I'm "assuming".
There's no having a rational discussion with someone like you, therefore, I am done.
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I was stating my OPINION. Know what that means? I was asking a QUESTION, just looking for someone to EXPLAIN. Lol. Just because it's not going your way, you think it's not rational.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 3:59 PM
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Also, there's no way you were only looking for someone to EXPLAIN, lol, because you have had multiple EXPLANATIONS, and all you've done is argue with them. Next time you want someone to EXPLAIN, then please accept the explanations.
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The reason I argue is because their explanations don't add up. If you asked someone to explain something to you, but it didn't add up, would you accept it? Lol.
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They add up perfectly. You just have a bad case of last-word-itis. But now you've run into someone who used to have a bad case herself, but mostly got over it, but who still allows it to rear its ugly head now and then. How old are you?
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Are you even African or African-American?
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Nope. That's why I don't try to tell Africans or African-Americans what's okay to call themselves.
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Sooo, why exactly is this even your business? You obviously don't live the experiences of Africans or African-Americans, so why are you talking on behalf of them? By the way, I was talking about the NAMES, not themselves. If you're going to argue, get it right.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 4:27 PM
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It's my business because you made the post. How is it your business?
I am not speaking "on behalf of" African-Americans. It is a fact that "African-American" is what most of them want to be called. If tomorrow they decide they want to be called something else, it would not be my place to argue with it.
Yes, I know you were speaking about the names, but the names are called African-American because they are created by and used by predominately African-Americans, and the "African" part of that title is supposedly what motivated you to post, so the fact that the group is termed African-American is relevant to the discussion.
I am not speaking "on behalf of" African-Americans. It is a fact that "African-American" is what most of them want to be called. If tomorrow they decide they want to be called something else, it would not be my place to argue with it.
Yes, I know you were speaking about the names, but the names are called African-American because they are created by and used by predominately African-Americans, and the "African" part of that title is supposedly what motivated you to post, so the fact that the group is termed African-American is relevant to the discussion.
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It's my business for the same exact reason. You said it is a fact: where is the evidence? Show me a poll, or some proof.
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There has been no poll for over ten years. When there was one, more wanted to be called African-American as opposed to black than wanted to be called black as opposed to African-American, and the majority didn't care. But that was ten years ago, so no telling what's changed.
What's incontrovertibly true is that African-American is a more commonly used term in 2018 than is black. Not that it's any of your business.
What's incontrovertibly true is that African-American is a more commonly used term in 2018 than is black. Not that it's any of your business.
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I'll say this again. Where is the proof? Until I see that, there is no base to your statements.
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What difference does it make? "African-American" is a commonly used term in the United States, and there are few African-Americans objecting to it. The point is you don't get to dictate what they are called.
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You are avoiding the fact that you don't have proof. And get this: I.AM.NOT.DICTATING.WHAT.PEOPLE.SHOULD.CALL.THEMSELVES. I am stating my opinion. Dictate is a very strong word, as you should know.
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Projection. It wasn't going your way, so now you're backtracking, over-explaining, and twisting yourself into knots.
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Lol, I thought you were done? I love the way you said "someone like me" even though you don't know squat about me.
This message was edited 6/19/2018, 4:05 PM
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I know the way that you argue from your posts in this thread, and that was all that I meant by "someone like you".
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