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Helponce again ...
in reply to a message by Rachel Shaina
This list really points up the difference between what is popular according to an Internet forum and what is popular in real life according to statistics of actual births.
It's really amazing how sharp the difference is.
"It's one thing to be open-minded and quite another to be so open-minded your brains fall out."--Dear Abby
"Let other people push you around, and you deserve whatever bad things happen after that."--Lauren Bacall
It's really amazing how sharp the difference is.
"It's one thing to be open-minded and quite another to be so open-minded your brains fall out."--Dear Abby
"Let other people push you around, and you deserve whatever bad things happen after that."--Lauren Bacall
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We have taste, the general public does not.
If I were part of a gourmet cooking website, I wouldn't express surprise that they never post a recipe for a Big Mac.
If I were part of a gourmet cooking website, I wouldn't express surprise that they never post a recipe for a Big Mac.
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how is taste even measured?
Never mind that we're all "the general public" here. There's no taste-test to pass to be able to post on here, and what's the difference in "taste" between somebody liking non-BTN-top-twenty Emily and BTN-ranked-top-twenty Sophia anyway?
Never mind that we're all "the general public" here. There's no taste-test to pass to be able to post on here, and what's the difference in "taste" between somebody liking non-BTN-top-twenty Emily and BTN-ranked-top-twenty Sophia anyway?
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Perhaps taste is cultivated by the rather small portion of the general population who choose to spend large chunks of their spare time considering and appreciating names.
I've always said that the people who know something the best are the people who love it. Love/appreciation tells you things about a topic that nothing else can.
I've always said that the people who know something the best are the people who love it. Love/appreciation tells you things about a topic that nothing else can.
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It's measured by me. I was making the judgment, so it was measured by me. My judgment is that you see a big difference between what is most liked here and what is most used by the general public because the people here have better taste than the general public does. Although anyone is free to post here, people who love names enough to find a site such as this one and post on it regularly are different from 99.9% of people, who shake their heads and inwardly, if not outwardly, roll their eyes at the very idea of a board like this one.
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it isn't me ...
Who determines what's popular in the real world, on real kids. The SSA has the data, and the UK and other countries collect and publish their own data, and the top twenties for each country are very different from the one for BTN.
Who determines what's popular in the real world, on real kids. The SSA has the data, and the UK and other countries collect and publish their own data, and the top twenties for each country are very different from the one for BTN.
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You do this each year and eaxh year Rachel Shaina clearly shows how the the names are rising.
It's ridiculous
It's ridiculous
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It is true that the names we like tend to be up-and-coming, sort of pushing fashion ahead of them.
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I'm not sure what your point is. I didn't say it was you. Obviously the SSA list, and whatever means the other countries use, are indicators of the taste of the general public. You pointed out the difference, and I gave what I think is the reason for it.
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I'll have to run some comparisons again, but to an extent, BTN does predict or reflect SSA trends-- we just have a bit more of a niche style so these names aren't necessarily going to be, like, top 10 material.
Before posting, I was actually looking at your post saying the same thing in 2013, and my reply wherein I went through a bunch and compared us to the SSA (http://www.behindthename.com/bb/baby/4483684).
One of the comments I made was:
The 2013 SSA chart came out 5 months later and Margot did chart, at #943. It's #592 now. Huge rise in 3 years. (It's kind of bouncy on BTN though).
SSA top 10s vary quite a bit even by state/region. Plus, we have international influence.
I'll do some comparisons and get back to you.
Before posting, I was actually looking at your post saying the same thing in 2013, and my reply wherein I went through a bunch and compared us to the SSA (http://www.behindthename.com/bb/baby/4483684).
One of the comments I made was:
The 2013 SSA chart came out 5 months later and Margot did chart, at #943. It's #592 now. Huge rise in 3 years. (It's kind of bouncy on BTN though).
SSA top 10s vary quite a bit even by state/region. Plus, we have international influence.
I'll do some comparisons and get back to you.
This message was edited 12/10/2016, 10:15 AM
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the difference is much more pronounced ...
On the girls' list than on the boys' list, with the notable exception of Ptolemy.
Solveig says she wouldn't even blink if she encountered a Ptolemy, but that is not the same thing as Ptolemy's popularity on the BTN list being related to its popularity in real life, and the fact is she is highly unlikely to ever encounter a Ptolemy of any age who was given that name by his parents (as opposed to giving it to himself as a stage name or something.) In fact, if she, or anybody else, said they encountered one, it would be a very big surprise. I would be fairly sure that anyone claiming to have known "several" Ptolemies is full of BS.
On the girls' list, only a couple of top-100 names are in the top 20, and top-tenners Isabella, Ava, Emily and Sophia are nowhere to be found.
On the girls' list than on the boys' list, with the notable exception of Ptolemy.
Solveig says she wouldn't even blink if she encountered a Ptolemy, but that is not the same thing as Ptolemy's popularity on the BTN list being related to its popularity in real life, and the fact is she is highly unlikely to ever encounter a Ptolemy of any age who was given that name by his parents (as opposed to giving it to himself as a stage name or something.) In fact, if she, or anybody else, said they encountered one, it would be a very big surprise. I would be fairly sure that anyone claiming to have known "several" Ptolemies is full of BS.
On the girls' list, only a couple of top-100 names are in the top 20, and top-tenners Isabella, Ava, Emily and Sophia are nowhere to be found.
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My sister knows a Ptolemy. I know his aunt. They're out there....
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I really don't understand your point- of course the BtN list isn't going to reflect the SSA list exactly because we're a small sample size that actually *isn't* the same as the general population even though we are apart of the general public. It is what is known as a "sampling bias". That is why you try and get a representative sample in any kind of research if you want to generalize your findings to the "general public". Rachel Shaina isn't trying to do that- she does this for her own interest and for ours.
We have a sampling bias because even though anyone can post on these boards, most don't. The people who post here are mostly female, are generally more highly educated or at least read more than the general population, have an interest in names (therefore are less likely to pick a name they just hear regularly like Isabella), and actively spend time weighing the pros and cons of names. Of course it won't reflect the SSA charts, just like if you took a sample of children of college professors or a sample of children born in a small Southern town that is mostly African-American- it won't be anything close to the SSA charts but still might be interesting just because it does reflect that sample. It just won't be generalizable to the population at large.
We have a sampling bias because even though anyone can post on these boards, most don't. The people who post here are mostly female, are generally more highly educated or at least read more than the general population, have an interest in names (therefore are less likely to pick a name they just hear regularly like Isabella), and actively spend time weighing the pros and cons of names. Of course it won't reflect the SSA charts, just like if you took a sample of children of college professors or a sample of children born in a small Southern town that is mostly African-American- it won't be anything close to the SSA charts but still might be interesting just because it does reflect that sample. It just won't be generalizable to the population at large.
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I didn't really have a particular point ...
I was just kind of surprised at how far removed the BTN rankings are from the SSA rankings. It was just striking, is all.
I was just kind of surprised at how far removed the BTN rankings are from the SSA rankings. It was just striking, is all.
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A celeb recently used Ptolemy. Not sure who or when.
The reason I wouldn't blink at a Ptolemy is the sheer WTH names I come across all the time. It's got a geeky vibe to it and fits into the geek naming niche. No, I'll probably never know more than one, but it wouldn't surprise me.
The reason I wouldn't blink at a Ptolemy is the sheer WTH names I come across all the time. It's got a geeky vibe to it and fits into the geek naming niche. No, I'll probably never know more than one, but it wouldn't surprise me.
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Don't get hung up on Ptolemy. 16 uses means 1 person posted it every month and 1 other person posted it 4 times. That's it. Last year it was only posted 12 times (1 person really likes it), and prior to that, it didn't even make BTN's top 100. It has 43 all-time postings; it ties with Emrys and Sidre and Theron (and Mark, heh).
BTNers typically avoid very popular names. Surely in your time here, you've seen plenty posts saying "I like this name but it's too popular". Sophia did okay, actually (10 postings). Isabella, Ava, and Emily got 2 each.
Try to think more in terms of movement, rather than where a name ranks now. Is it going up or down? Remember that a large majority of actively posting BTNers don't have children [yet]. And that this is a small sample size and that it's a pretty specific sample (I'd go through our last roll call, but I'm busy comparing name popularities) wherein most of the people are white 18-30sish? educated women. That's what I meant by niche.
I'm almost done comparing the girls. I'll put the comparisons in a top level reply when I'm done.
BTNers typically avoid very popular names. Surely in your time here, you've seen plenty posts saying "I like this name but it's too popular". Sophia did okay, actually (10 postings). Isabella, Ava, and Emily got 2 each.
Try to think more in terms of movement, rather than where a name ranks now. Is it going up or down? Remember that a large majority of actively posting BTNers don't have children [yet]. And that this is a small sample size and that it's a pretty specific sample (I'd go through our last roll call, but I'm busy comparing name popularities) wherein most of the people are white 18-30sish? educated women. That's what I meant by niche.
I'm almost done comparing the girls. I'll put the comparisons in a top level reply when I'm done.
This message was edited 12/10/2016, 11:16 AM
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Not a single one of those names on the list would make me blink in real life. Each and every one of those names has a trendy sound and many of them are growing in popularity. Boards like this tend to be predictions of popularity to come. I used to love the name Ezra and people thought it was odd, and now it's quite popular.
And no, my crowd of friends isn't odd at all. I come across these names at daycare , at Library events, etc. I wouldn't even blink at Ptolemy, but I would suspect his parents were highly intelligent geeks or history buffs
And no, my crowd of friends isn't odd at all. I come across these names at daycare , at Library events, etc. I wouldn't even blink at Ptolemy, but I would suspect his parents were highly intelligent geeks or history buffs
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