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ArchivesRe: Alternate origin for Darlene
in reply to a message by Shaymin
Of course people in the late 19th century named children for their own parents and grandparents just as they do today, but I don't see evidence that they were looking back hundreds of years for baby names (unlikely that a family Bible would have lasted so long, anyway!) Two sets of my great-grandparents emigrated from Germany in the 1880s. My grandmother, who was born in 1896, told me that most German immigrants were eager to shed the "old country" language and names, and fit in with English-speaking society. Her parents, Friedrich and Wilhelmina, used their own names for their children but in English versions, Fred and Minnie (my grandmother). They also had a son Charlie who was named for his grandfather, Karl.
I'm not trying to argue with you at all. I believe that you found instances of Darlene and similar names in old records, I just think it unlikely that all of a sudden in the 1890s parents rediscovered those names and somehow altered them all to the same form, Darlene. The fact that Arlene was common for over a decade before Darlene appears in the data is telling to me, as is the existence of a number of other rhyming names like Carlene, Charlene, as well as the fact that there are no other names in the least like Darlene in the data at this time (no Darline, or Doroline, or Darlen, etc., as you would expect if parents were resurrecting the earlier names).
I really believe it is much more likely that the ancient Darlene is unrelated to the modern Darlene.
I'm not trying to argue with you at all. I believe that you found instances of Darlene and similar names in old records, I just think it unlikely that all of a sudden in the 1890s parents rediscovered those names and somehow altered them all to the same form, Darlene. The fact that Arlene was common for over a decade before Darlene appears in the data is telling to me, as is the existence of a number of other rhyming names like Carlene, Charlene, as well as the fact that there are no other names in the least like Darlene in the data at this time (no Darline, or Doroline, or Darlen, etc., as you would expect if parents were resurrecting the earlier names).
I really believe it is much more likely that the ancient Darlene is unrelated to the modern Darlene.
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Replies
I am not arguing that names certainly become popular for various reasons. There is however a big difference between origin and usage. So while Carlene and Arlene may have helped make it popular, that doesn't necessarily negate that Darlene may have an older origin.
It isn't hundreds of years, it is really late 1700s and early 1800s it starts to appear, earliest I could find were 1500s, and I wasn't suggesting people were looking at old records. All it takes is a book, a song, (a movie in later centuries), or even a few women in a small area to have the name and other people hear it, like the sound of it, and start using it on their children for their own reasons.
Kayla became very popular in the US by non-Jews due to a soap opera but the fact of the matter is that it existed as a traditional Yiddish female name prior to that for centuries. It still does not change the origin of the name. People may have different reasons of using a name later on; people may use a name due to a false or incorrect etymology.
This is the same case with Jessica. Its earlier use was specific to the Anglo-Norman Jewish community, yet became very popular in the 1980s by non-Jews centuries later. Not even Shakespeare helped resurrect it among his contemporaries. Maybe because a lot of parents assumed it was a feminine form of Jessie and Jessie/Jesse was a somewhat common male counterpart at the time. It still doesn't change the fact that Jessica had a much older history.
Reasons behind the usage of names morphs throughout the centuries.
"Two sets of my great-grandparents emigrated from Germany in the 1880s. My grandmother, who was born in 1896, told me that most German immigrants were eager to shed the "old country" language and names, and fit in with English-speaking society."
It isn't hundreds of years, it is really late 1700s and early 1800s it starts to appear, earliest I could find were 1500s, and I wasn't suggesting people were looking at old records. All it takes is a book, a song, (a movie in later centuries), or even a few women in a small area to have the name and other people hear it, like the sound of it, and start using it on their children for their own reasons.
Kayla became very popular in the US by non-Jews due to a soap opera but the fact of the matter is that it existed as a traditional Yiddish female name prior to that for centuries. It still does not change the origin of the name. People may have different reasons of using a name later on; people may use a name due to a false or incorrect etymology.
This is the same case with Jessica. Its earlier use was specific to the Anglo-Norman Jewish community, yet became very popular in the 1980s by non-Jews centuries later. Not even Shakespeare helped resurrect it among his contemporaries. Maybe because a lot of parents assumed it was a feminine form of Jessie and Jessie/Jesse was a somewhat common male counterpart at the time. It still doesn't change the fact that Jessica had a much older history.
Reasons behind the usage of names morphs throughout the centuries.
"Two sets of my great-grandparents emigrated from Germany in the 1880s. My grandmother, who was born in 1896, told me that most German immigrants were eager to shed the "old country" language and names, and fit in with English-speaking society."
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