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ArchivesRe: does Iridia mean Iris
in reply to a message by Sabertooth
Hello, I am interested in hearing what the sources are that you found the above information in. Would you mind listing them for me, please? I am especially curious to in which language ia is a noun that means "female, woman". My own knowledge so far is that in both ancient Greek and Latin, -ia is a suffix that forms abstract nouns of feminine gender:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ia (in English)
Also, according to the Perseus Digital Library of Tufts University (https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/), ia as a noun in ancient Greek can mean "one", "violet", "arrow" and "voice, cry". There is no mention of "female, woman":
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=i)a&la=greek&can=i)a (in English)
Latin does not appear to have a noun ia at all, as I performed a search for Latin words beginning with ia- and there was no such noun in the Perseus Digital Library:
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/resolveform?type=start&lookup=ia&lang=la (in English)
Finally, as far as I know, the words for "female, woman" (as a noun) are the following in ancient Greek and Latin:
- ἀνδρίς (andris):
• http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=a)ndri%2Fs&la=greek&can=a)ndri%2Fs (in English)
• https://lsj.gr/wiki/%E1%BC%80%CE%BD%CE%B4%CF%81%CE%AF%CF%82 (in English)
- femina:
• https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=femina&la=la&can=femina (in English)
• https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/femina#Latin (in English)
- γυνή (gune, gyne):
• http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=gunh%2F&la=greek&can=gunh%2F (in English)
• https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B3%CF%85%CE%BD%CE%AE#Ancient_Greek (in English)
• https://lsj.gr/wiki/%CE%B3%CF%85%CE%BD%CE%AE (in English)
- mulier:
• https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=mulier&la=la&can=mulier (in English)
• https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mulier#Latin (in English)
- vira:
• https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=vira&la=la&can=vira (in English)
• https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vira#Latin (in English)
I left out nouns that mean a bit more than just "female, woman", such as marita and matrona, which both mean "married woman, wife" in Latin.
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Replies
Irid- is the genitive form of "iris." [Lat. from Gr. iridos]
See https://www.etymonline.com/word/iridium
gen·i·tive
/ˈjenədiv/
Grammar
adjective
adjective: genitive
relating to or denoting a case of nouns and pronouns (and words in grammatical agreement with them) indicating possession or close association.
-ia
English
From Latin -ia and Ancient Greek -ία (-ía), -εια (-eia), which form abstract nouns of feminine gender.
The "abstract noun of feminine gender" in the case of a proper name is "a woman."
As a metronymic name, Iridia can also mean "daughter of Iris." The deciding factor would be whether the namer intends iris (a rainbow) or Iris (the Greek rainbow goddess).
See https://www.etymonline.com/word/iridium
gen·i·tive
/ˈjenədiv/
Grammar
adjective
adjective: genitive
relating to or denoting a case of nouns and pronouns (and words in grammatical agreement with them) indicating possession or close association.
-ia
English
From Latin -ia and Ancient Greek -ία (-ía), -εια (-eia), which form abstract nouns of feminine gender.
The "abstract noun of feminine gender" in the case of a proper name is "a woman."
As a metronymic name, Iridia can also mean "daughter of Iris." The deciding factor would be whether the namer intends iris (a rainbow) or Iris (the Greek rainbow goddess).
This message was edited 9/23/2019, 11:31 PM
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It denotes a woman's name, it does not "mean" woman. If it actually meant "woman" we'd get silly meanings such as Gynea "Woman-woman", when the -ia only denotes that this is a woman's name, and not the word for woman. Similarly "daughter" is only implied, it's not an explicit part of the name. The root is Irid-, the peculiarities of the nominative case result in a reduction to Iris.
4
I was thinking more along the lines of -ess [Contessa] (which implies woman or wife) or -ine [Geraldine] (which implies wife or daughter).
Irid- is genitive, not nominative. If "woman" is only implied, it still means "of Iris" or "rainbow one," depending on the Iris/iris context.
It is like the difference between Julus & Julius / Julia.
Irid- is genitive, not nominative. If "woman" is only implied, it still means "of Iris" or "rainbow one," depending on the Iris/iris context.
It is like the difference between Julus & Julius / Julia.
This message was edited 9/24/2019, 4:03 AM
-1
You're still missing the point Sabertooth, the genitive may have a d and the nominative an s, but that has no relevance to compounds or suffixed forms. ALL declensions were originally ῑ̓ρῐδ- (and only the nominative and vocative have lost the δ), the nominative was ῑ̓́ρῐδς, reduced later to ῑ̓́ρῐς, so all derivatives are normally ῑ̓́ρῐδ- as well.
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Wouldn't the female form be Irida instead of Iridia, anyway?
Since the figure of Iris is already portrayed as female, wouldn't the -a suffix denote an associated human female?
And isn't -a different from -ia, in that the latter denotes a descendant [daughter]?
Since the figure of Iris is already portrayed as female, wouldn't the -a suffix denote an associated human female?
And isn't -a different from -ia, in that the latter denotes a descendant [daughter]?
This message was edited 10/2/2019, 1:39 PM
-2
No, the ia, is used to form personal names and abstract nouns based on nouns and adjectives. It's a convention used to differentiate from saying "(The) rainbow (Iris) is beautiful" from "(the person named) Rainbow (Iridia) is beautiful". In English this is implied by context, capitalization and the presence of the Definitive or indefinite article, in Greek the suffix differentiates between a name and a simple noun.
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