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HelpNames I'm contemplating (inc. Myra in the UK)
I have four boys' combinations I'm considering;
Casper Elliott Fox
Caspian Douglas Jude
Hugo Vivian Tobias/Thomas
Linnet Matthias Henry
Any thoughts? Feel free to suggest alternates to the italicised names!
I'm also thinking about the name Myra, but I'm a little concerned about the Myra Hindley association (I'm not sure how known she is elsewhere, so in case anyone is unaware - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors_murders). She seems to be the only association most people have with the name and her crimes still elicit anger, at least in the area I live in. What do you think of the name, and using it despite the association?
Much obliged!
Ottilie
http://www.behindthename.com/pnl/116467
Casper Elliott Fox
Caspian Douglas Jude
Hugo Vivian Tobias/Thomas
Linnet Matthias Henry
Any thoughts? Feel free to suggest alternates to the italicised names!
I'm also thinking about the name Myra, but I'm a little concerned about the Myra Hindley association (I'm not sure how known she is elsewhere, so in case anyone is unaware - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors_murders). She seems to be the only association most people have with the name and her crimes still elicit anger, at least in the area I live in. What do you think of the name, and using it despite the association?
Much obliged!
http://www.behindthename.com/pnl/116467
Archived Thread - replies disabled
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Replies
I really love all the boy combos, especially the Caspian one, it's fantastic.
As for Myra, I'm fully aware of who Hindley was, and her horrific crimes. My late mom was British, I've spent a lot of time in the country, and I have seen on occasion how people react to the mere mention of her name.
I think two things contributed to the fact the name Myra became so taboo in the UK.
Firstly, the name Myra is more distinctive than Ian, and many people wouldn't have known another one. I remember my aunt saying something like, "everyone knew at least one Ian, someone they could associate the name Ian with, yet very few would have known another Myra."
In many ways, this made her name eponymous, you didn't need to use her surname you just simply had to say "Myra". In fact, wasn't there a book or TV show in the last few years, that was simply named 'Myra'. Nothing else was needed. Everyone knew who it was.
Secondly, putting aside the fact Ian was a common name and Myra wasn't, there's the fact that Hindley was a woman. The very fact a woman could do that to children, when women were (and usually still are) seen as the nurturers of children, shocked the country to the core and from what I've heard and read about the case, I don't think that's ever gone away.
I do think the name Myra's time will come again but I don't think it's right now or in the immediate future.
For a start, Ian Brady is still alive, and while he's still alive the case is still alive. He will die at some point, I would say most likely very soon, give all the health stories about him in the last year or two. When that happens, it will all be in the media again, which means Myra will be in the news again.
Then on top of that, and I would say more importantly, I know the family of Keith Bennett (the only victim of Brady and Hindley whose remains have never been found) are still campaigning/petitioning for a new search for his remains. I've seen it in the media and online several times. That's something that could still potentially keep Hindley's name in the public psyche and thus still render Myra taboo.
As for Myra, I'm fully aware of who Hindley was, and her horrific crimes. My late mom was British, I've spent a lot of time in the country, and I have seen on occasion how people react to the mere mention of her name.
I think two things contributed to the fact the name Myra became so taboo in the UK.
Firstly, the name Myra is more distinctive than Ian, and many people wouldn't have known another one. I remember my aunt saying something like, "everyone knew at least one Ian, someone they could associate the name Ian with, yet very few would have known another Myra."
In many ways, this made her name eponymous, you didn't need to use her surname you just simply had to say "Myra". In fact, wasn't there a book or TV show in the last few years, that was simply named 'Myra'. Nothing else was needed. Everyone knew who it was.
Secondly, putting aside the fact Ian was a common name and Myra wasn't, there's the fact that Hindley was a woman. The very fact a woman could do that to children, when women were (and usually still are) seen as the nurturers of children, shocked the country to the core and from what I've heard and read about the case, I don't think that's ever gone away.
I do think the name Myra's time will come again but I don't think it's right now or in the immediate future.
For a start, Ian Brady is still alive, and while he's still alive the case is still alive. He will die at some point, I would say most likely very soon, give all the health stories about him in the last year or two. When that happens, it will all be in the media again, which means Myra will be in the news again.
Then on top of that, and I would say more importantly, I know the family of Keith Bennett (the only victim of Brady and Hindley whose remains have never been found) are still campaigning/petitioning for a new search for his remains. I've seen it in the media and online several times. That's something that could still potentially keep Hindley's name in the public psyche and thus still render Myra taboo.
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Ah, my goodness, thank you for such a thoughtful answer! I guess Myra will just have to remain in the depths of my PNL, at least for now. :)
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In all my rambling on, I forgot to say, I actually think Myra is a rather lovely name.
It would be nice to see it "rescued" from simply being associated with that woman.
It would be nice to see it "rescued" from simply being associated with that woman.
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The only name I really care for is Casper and if I could tweak the combo, I'd suggest Casper Henry Thomas or Casper Henry Jude. There, very dashing, imo.
Re: Myra, I've only known one. She was an older woman in my church and when she died, it was then I discovered that her real name was Miriam Rose which is gorgeous. Having said that, if Maya / Maia can work, then Myra certainly can and I wouldn't worry about negative associations as I'm sure many won't associate Myra with this person.
Re: Myra, I've only known one. She was an older woman in my church and when she died, it was then I discovered that her real name was Miriam Rose which is gorgeous. Having said that, if Maya / Maia can work, then Myra certainly can and I wouldn't worry about negative associations as I'm sure many won't associate Myra with this person.
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Thanks :)
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I'm from the US and have heard of Myra. However, she isn't the first association I think of because I am not from that area so I'm not sure I'm the best to give advice on it in that regard. I do think its a lovely name though. My first association is Myra from Dr. Quinn: Medicine Woman. She played a saloon prostitute, but she was sweet so I like the name.
Of your combos, I think Caspar Elliott Fox is fabulous! But, I prefer Caspian Elliott Fox.
I'm not a fan of the others. Linnet is too feminine looking for me. Same with Vivian. Hugo is meh. But, I love Henry!
Of your combos, I think Caspar Elliott Fox is fabulous! But, I prefer Caspian Elliott Fox.
I'm not a fan of the others. Linnet is too feminine looking for me. Same with Vivian. Hugo is meh. But, I love Henry!
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Thanks! :)
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I'm not in the UK, but Myra gives me the shudders. I don't think its time has come yet. And she and Brady keep popping up on Notorious Crimes-type TV programmes, so the public keeps on being reminded ...
Your boy list is interesting! I can't see Linnet on a boy - too close to Lynette - but maybe Leonard could work instead? Leonard Matthias Henry would be very distinguished.
Hugo Vivian Thomas would work for me, in fact it would be my choice. Not Tobias though; the rhythm doesn't flow. But, Caspar Tobias Fox is good!
Caspian is OK, Jude is OK, but two strong literary (and musical!) references in one name are two too many. Caspian Douglas Paul? Caspian Douglas James?
Your boy list is interesting! I can't see Linnet on a boy - too close to Lynette - but maybe Leonard could work instead? Leonard Matthias Henry would be very distinguished.
Hugo Vivian Thomas would work for me, in fact it would be my choice. Not Tobias though; the rhythm doesn't flow. But, Caspar Tobias Fox is good!
Caspian is OK, Jude is OK, but two strong literary (and musical!) references in one name are two too many. Caspian Douglas Paul? Caspian Douglas James?
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I do like Leonard, but the Lin- sound honours for me, and I just felt Linnet would be more interesting on a boy. I'm not aware of any literary association with Jude (musical association, sure); it's just kind of an everyday name to me.
This message was edited 10/5/2014, 5:42 AM
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Jude. Thomas Hardy novel, Jude the Obscure, totally grim and gloomy story of poverty-stricken working-class people with potential they can never do anything with. Full of death and despair. Lucky you for not knowing about it!
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Oh, yes, I have heard of it actually! It's certainly not something that comes to mind with the name, though.
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Myra is OK but Moira is prettier. Myra is in the Adolf class, utterly beyond the pale. Any kid called Myra would get the Hindley tag. Hindley is a murderer of historic infamy like Jack the Ripper. The memory will never fade.
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Well, that's alright, because I like Moira, too :)
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Casper Elliott Fox- Casper reminds me of the friendly ghost cartoon from my childhood. Not a human name to me. I like Elliott and Fox is a cute middle name. I'd prefer Elliot Fox but you seem to be a fan of the double middle name.
Caspian Douglas Jude- Caspian is also a name I don't think works on a human for some reason. Douglas is an unfortunate name to me. But I LOVE Jude.
Hugo Vivian Tobias/Thomas- LOVE Hugo. Vivian is past it's time as a male name to me. I world choose Tobias over Thomas, it has more character. I would personally go with Hugo Tobias
Linnet Matthias Henry- Linnet sounds like a girls name sorry. Mattias Henry is okay though. But be aware he will probably go as Matt. I don't care for Matt.
Caspian Douglas Jude- Caspian is also a name I don't think works on a human for some reason. Douglas is an unfortunate name to me. But I LOVE Jude.
Hugo Vivian Tobias/Thomas- LOVE Hugo. Vivian is past it's time as a male name to me. I world choose Tobias over Thomas, it has more character. I would personally go with Hugo Tobias
Linnet Matthias Henry- Linnet sounds like a girls name sorry. Mattias Henry is okay though. But be aware he will probably go as Matt. I don't care for Matt.
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Casper Elliott Fox - woa, Eliott Fox is so seriously cool. I dunno about Casper really. The flow is great as a whole name but I dunno about having the first name Casper.
Caspian Douglas Jude - weird. Caspian is a G.P of mine. It's wistful and romantic and strong, and then you follow it up with Douglas! Douglas is all stocky ugliness and muddy boots. I don't think they go together at all.
Hugo Vivian Tobias/Thomas - Hugo Vivian Tobais. Love this! I love Vivian on boys or girls and I'm getting really into Hugo just now.
Linnet Matthias Henry - Uhm. Probably you're going to get a lot of people saying this, but Linnet is a girl's name. I don't think it's ever been used on a boy... and it's fine to say in theory "people give boys names to girls so why not the other way around" but I think any boy named Linnet would grow up cursing whoever was to blame.
Matthias is awesome. Henry does nothing for me.
Caspian Douglas Jude - weird. Caspian is a G.P of mine. It's wistful and romantic and strong, and then you follow it up with Douglas! Douglas is all stocky ugliness and muddy boots. I don't think they go together at all.
Hugo Vivian Tobias/Thomas - Hugo Vivian Tobais. Love this! I love Vivian on boys or girls and I'm getting really into Hugo just now.
Linnet Matthias Henry - Uhm. Probably you're going to get a lot of people saying this, but Linnet is a girl's name. I don't think it's ever been used on a boy... and it's fine to say in theory "people give boys names to girls so why not the other way around" but I think any boy named Linnet would grow up cursing whoever was to blame.
Matthias is awesome. Henry does nothing for me.
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The site may list Linnet as feminine, but I honestly don't think it strictly has to be. I say LIN-uht as opposed to lin-ET. If I raised a son who thought having a softer, more "feminine" name was something to be embarrassed about, I'd consider myself to have failed, in part, as a parent. Also, having known males with more feminine names, I can honestly say it's never been an issue for them.
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I say LIN-uht as well. Like the bird. Lin-ET would be Lynette, no?
Have you ever heard of Linnet on a boy? To me it doesn't seem like using a name like Ashley or Vivian on a boy, both of which I love. It's more like giving a boy a name like Amy. No, okay, something less common and more nature-y. Ivy. Why should Ivy be only a girl's name? It's just a plant. It sounds a little like Ivor. Surely Ivy would be great on a boy! But no one uses it, and I bet any boy turning up in highschool with the name Ivy would have hell to pay.
Maybe you'd bring your boy up to believe there was nothing wrong with a typically feminine name but until most people agree with you, I don't think using one would be the best idea.
My experiences with "most people" make me want to do nothing to provoke them to go for my kids.
Have you ever heard of Linnet on a boy? To me it doesn't seem like using a name like Ashley or Vivian on a boy, both of which I love. It's more like giving a boy a name like Amy. No, okay, something less common and more nature-y. Ivy. Why should Ivy be only a girl's name? It's just a plant. It sounds a little like Ivor. Surely Ivy would be great on a boy! But no one uses it, and I bet any boy turning up in highschool with the name Ivy would have hell to pay.
Maybe you'd bring your boy up to believe there was nothing wrong with a typically feminine name but until most people agree with you, I don't think using one would be the best idea.
My experiences with "most people" make me want to do nothing to provoke them to go for my kids.
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No, but I've never heard it on a girl, either. Honestly, I sincerely doubt a boy named Linnet would get treated that badly because of it; I've known (male) Leslies and Storms and Atlantas and god knows what else throughout my childhood and into secondary school, and no one ever saw them as weird, they were just people's names. Names don't "provoke" kids.
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Casper Elliott Fox - Flows really well. I don't love Casper, but it's okay. Fox is fun and I like it with Elliott.
How about Casper Everett Fox, Casper Ellery Fox, or Casper Samuel Fox?
Caspian Douglas Jude - Very handsome. Caspian is a bit pretentious, perhaps, but better than Casper.
How about Caspian Douglas Thom, Caspian Douglas Bram, or Caspian Douglas Tate?
Hugo VIvian Thomas - Ah, Vivian? No. The rest of the combo is great.
Hugo Vivian Tobias - Ah, Vivian? No. :) The rest of the combo is okay, but Thomas works better.
How about Hugo Vivian Taggart, Hugo Vivian Tayo, or Hugo Vivian Daniel?
Linnet Matthias Henry - Linnet is new to me. I don't really like it. The combo is fine.
How about Linnet Matthias Aram, Linnet Matthias Rowan, or Linnet Matthias Montgomery?
How about Casper Everett Fox, Casper Ellery Fox, or Casper Samuel Fox?
Caspian Douglas Jude - Very handsome. Caspian is a bit pretentious, perhaps, but better than Casper.
How about Caspian Douglas Thom, Caspian Douglas Bram, or Caspian Douglas Tate?
Hugo VIvian Thomas - Ah, Vivian? No. The rest of the combo is great.
Hugo Vivian Tobias - Ah, Vivian? No. :) The rest of the combo is okay, but Thomas works better.
How about Hugo Vivian Taggart, Hugo Vivian Tayo, or Hugo Vivian Daniel?
Linnet Matthias Henry - Linnet is new to me. I don't really like it. The combo is fine.
How about Linnet Matthias Aram, Linnet Matthias Rowan, or Linnet Matthias Montgomery?
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Thank you! Caspian Douglas Tate is definitely one to consider :)
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I think Vivian and Linnet are too female on boys and I don't like Fox, sorry.
About Myra: I like to read True Crime, so I know who Myra Hindley was and no, she's not the kind of person you want people to associate your child's name with (to?). Since I don't live in the UK, I can't really know how people would react on it, though. Personally I think it's a beautiful name. (In Swedish it means "ant", BTW, but then it sounds more like "meera".)
About Myra: I like to read True Crime, so I know who Myra Hindley was and no, she's not the kind of person you want people to associate your child's name with (to?). Since I don't live in the UK, I can't really know how people would react on it, though. Personally I think it's a beautiful name. (In Swedish it means "ant", BTW, but then it sounds more like "meera".)
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Is it strange the "ant" meaning makes Myra a little more endearing to me? :3
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Casper just reminds me of casper of the friendly ghost. The association there is just blatant. I prefer Jasper instead. Elliot is a very decent, respectful name (does makes me think of a goofball type of guy though)
Casper elliot fox isn't something I'd personally used but the flow of the combo is exceedingly great. I'm not just saying that. It has a good flow
Caspian Douglas Jude: caspian just reminds me of narnia or the caspian sea. The name just seems way too fictional to use on an actual child. Douglas and Jude are fine but I feel that they don't go together. Not much flow. Only slightly
Hugo Vivian Tobias or Thomas: Hugo in my opinion is very "meh" dont have any hate for it but I also don't drool over it. Just a name that won't ever be on my favorites but I can tolerate it. I do prefer Thomas over Tobias.
Linnet Mathias henry: Mathias henry is fine. I think Matthew henry would be much better
Myra is beautiful. I"m sure Myra Hindley who I"m not firmiliar with is not the only one with the name. If her name was exceedingly rare or one in a million, then I could understand the trepidation more.
I know a lot were apprehensive with using the name "Casey" after the Casey Anthony case. But Casey is a standard name. I see Myra the same way but just not as popular I guess
I don't like Vivian or Linnet on a male. They are female names. Much too feminine for a boy. \:
Casper elliot fox isn't something I'd personally used but the flow of the combo is exceedingly great. I'm not just saying that. It has a good flow
Caspian Douglas Jude: caspian just reminds me of narnia or the caspian sea. The name just seems way too fictional to use on an actual child. Douglas and Jude are fine but I feel that they don't go together. Not much flow. Only slightly
Hugo Vivian Tobias or Thomas: Hugo in my opinion is very "meh" dont have any hate for it but I also don't drool over it. Just a name that won't ever be on my favorites but I can tolerate it. I do prefer Thomas over Tobias.
Linnet Mathias henry: Mathias henry is fine. I think Matthew henry would be much better
Myra is beautiful. I"m sure Myra Hindley who I"m not firmiliar with is not the only one with the name. If her name was exceedingly rare or one in a million, then I could understand the trepidation more.
I know a lot were apprehensive with using the name "Casey" after the Casey Anthony case. But Casey is a standard name. I see Myra the same way but just not as popular I guess
I don't like Vivian or Linnet on a male. They are female names. Much too feminine for a boy. \:
This message was edited 10/4/2014, 11:16 AM
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Well, Vivian is unisex - Oscar Wilde had a son named Vyvyan, which I intended Vivian to be a nod to. Linnet is a bird name, not particularly gendered, imo, I'm just liking it for a boy lately. :)
The pop culture associations with Casper and Caspian don't bother me - in fact, I kind of like them. Matthew is all too boring for me.
The pop culture associations with Casper and Caspian don't bother me - in fact, I kind of like them. Matthew is all too boring for me.
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Don't like any of the boys' combos, they're too theatrical and bloated.
In the US, Myra wouldn't get much of a reaction either way, aside from somebody not liking it or loving it. Myra Hindley is well-known to true-crime readers, but not like she is in the UK. I get the impression the name wasn't even very well-known in the UK until she and Brady came along, so it's not like a wel-loved name was ruined by her; probably that's why Ian just kind of fell out of fashion naturally rather than suddenly becoming taboo; it was already so common he was just one of many but happened to go way wrong. I think if her name had been Mary it wouldn't have happened to her name either.
As for the name itself, I don't care for it, it's kind of on the order of Edna or Verna. Mira is more popular here, pronounced Meer-a. Mayra, pronounced like Myra, My-ra, is typically a Hispanic name here but if you didn't know you'd be likely to think it was Mare-a.
In the US, Myra wouldn't get much of a reaction either way, aside from somebody not liking it or loving it. Myra Hindley is well-known to true-crime readers, but not like she is in the UK. I get the impression the name wasn't even very well-known in the UK until she and Brady came along, so it's not like a wel-loved name was ruined by her; probably that's why Ian just kind of fell out of fashion naturally rather than suddenly becoming taboo; it was already so common he was just one of many but happened to go way wrong. I think if her name had been Mary it wouldn't have happened to her name either.
As for the name itself, I don't care for it, it's kind of on the order of Edna or Verna. Mira is more popular here, pronounced Meer-a. Mayra, pronounced like Myra, My-ra, is typically a Hispanic name here but if you didn't know you'd be likely to think it was Mare-a.
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I like theatrical :)
I think you might be right regarding Myra, though, which is a pity, really. I do like Mira too.
I think you might be right regarding Myra, though, which is a pity, really. I do like Mira too.
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now that I think about it ...
The only other Myras I can think of are Miss Gulch in the Wizard of Oz, the nasty old lady on the bicycle who had it in for Toto, and Myra Breckinridge, a rather gross novel about a transsexual going by that name who treats some wannabe actors pretty badly.
The only other Myras I can think of are Miss Gulch in the Wizard of Oz, the nasty old lady on the bicycle who had it in for Toto, and Myra Breckinridge, a rather gross novel about a transsexual going by that name who treats some wannabe actors pretty badly.
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Miss Gulch was an Almira, I think. Pretty close!
This message was edited 10/4/2014, 2:18 PM
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Casper Elliott Fox - good, but I'd tweak it to Caspar to lose the friendly ghost association
Caspian Douglas Jude - not keen on Caspian or Jude, I'd have Crispin Douglas Jolyon instead
Hugo Vivian Tobias/Thomas - okay, Tancred occurs to me for the 3rd name spot
Linnet Matthias Henry - technically this works, sound-wise it works, historically there are precedents, but practically I wouldn't want to be a boy Linnet.
Ah Myra. I like it a lot; short and elegant and pleasant on the ears. It would really be great to see it resurrected. Sadly I don't think that's going to happen in my lifetime, although if you had a grandmother or great-aunt Myra it would be a lot easier. It's pretty much the Adolf of the UK.
Caspian Douglas Jude - not keen on Caspian or Jude, I'd have Crispin Douglas Jolyon instead
Hugo Vivian Tobias/Thomas - okay, Tancred occurs to me for the 3rd name spot
Linnet Matthias Henry - technically this works, sound-wise it works, historically there are precedents, but practically I wouldn't want to be a boy Linnet.
Ah Myra. I like it a lot; short and elegant and pleasant on the ears. It would really be great to see it resurrected. Sadly I don't think that's going to happen in my lifetime, although if you had a grandmother or great-aunt Myra it would be a lot easier. It's pretty much the Adolf of the UK.
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I'd drop the second t in Elliot. The other names are okay, though I find Caspian obnoxious, and Linnet prissy.
I only have positive associations of Myra since I have a late relative named Myra who was beautiful, though she did die tragically.
I only have positive associations of Myra since I have a late relative named Myra who was beautiful, though she did die tragically.
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If by "prissy" you mean "feminine", I don't really see the issue...
I go back and forth on Elliott vs Elliot.
I go back and forth on Elliott vs Elliot.
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I believe the concept of prissiness transcends gender, since there are both prissy men and prissy women. Linnet stikes me as prissy on either gender.
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Hmm, interesting. I don't feel as though it's used much as a descriptor for girls. It's a fair observation in that case, though :)
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