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HelpAn honest defense of "Jordan" as a female name
*This is not meant towards people who personally don't like Jordan on a girl, but rather those who state Jordan is a strictly male name as a fact*
Over the past few days, I began growing a liking of it on a girl. If your wondering what I think of it on a boy, I think it's okay. But it always sounded rather limp to me, like the name of a "pretty-boy". I put it in the same league as Tristan and Taylor, not bad on a boy, but doesn't burst masculinity.
Now, back on topic, I quite like Jordan for a girl, but I am a bit bothered by the huge backlash against it's use as a feminine name. I'd thought I would give an honest defense against some criticisms I see as unjust. Before I start, I'd like to clarify that I abhor the entire "boy names for girls" trend. I am actually disturbed that Nicholas, Gabriel, Parker, and Micah where all at one point in the top 1000 for girls, However I see Jordan, along with Aubrey and Taylor, as the few exceptions.
Jordan, in my opinion, sounds more feminine to me than masculine. One reason is the river it comes from. When I think of the Jordan river, I (and many other people) think of purity (baptism of Jesus), nature, serenity, holiness (to christians, not muslims like me, but still), beauty and easy flowing, all of which are associated with many girl names (such as Faith, Grace, Willow, Serenity, Lily, Jasmine, etc.). Since the river Jordan is very often associated with many of these, it makes sense why some see it as feminine. Also, I'd say majority of place names are girl names (such as Erin, India and Roma). The sound also just seems feminine to me, I know that's subjective, but I thought I would put that out.
Now to address some criticisms, the most common is "it's too masculine/handsome/harsh sounding for a girl" Firstly, that is subjective, Just because you think it's too harsh doesn't mean everybody does or has too. Secondly, I explained why I and some other people think it sounds more feminine than masculine. Thirdly, There are many common girl names that are also harsh and masculine sounding, but don't receive as much criticism. Morgan, Frances, and Rachel in particular (to be clear, I also like Frances and Rachel, but that's not my point)
Morgan and Frances where once strictly boy names and became extremely popular for girls, and they are just as harsh and masculine, but they (from what I've seen) have been mostly immune from criticism. I don't see people begging not to name their girls them and use Morgana and Francesca instead, talking about how hideous on a girl they are (actually, there are a couple, but peanuts in comparison). Is it because they both have been unisex for hundreds of years before Jordan? well that does make them any less masculine sounding or the fact they were originally for boys. Rachel is also a harsh sounding name, if it were originally a boy's name, would it really be that odd? If you hate Jordan for a girl, but love Morgan and Frances, please let me know why. Because I truly don't see the difference between naming your daughter Jordan and naming your daughter Morgan.
Another criticism is that it's trendy. I don't see that as a negative because the fact a name is trendy doesn't mean it's a bad name, it just means it won't be timeless like Alexander or Elizabeth. And I personally wish Jordan was here to stay, because I think it's an actually good name on a girl.
In conclusion, I hope I have convinced some of you to be more accepting of Jordan as a feminine name. You can still hate it on a girl, but don't whine us who like it on a girl for the reasons I stated above.
Over the past few days, I began growing a liking of it on a girl. If your wondering what I think of it on a boy, I think it's okay. But it always sounded rather limp to me, like the name of a "pretty-boy". I put it in the same league as Tristan and Taylor, not bad on a boy, but doesn't burst masculinity.
Now, back on topic, I quite like Jordan for a girl, but I am a bit bothered by the huge backlash against it's use as a feminine name. I'd thought I would give an honest defense against some criticisms I see as unjust. Before I start, I'd like to clarify that I abhor the entire "boy names for girls" trend. I am actually disturbed that Nicholas, Gabriel, Parker, and Micah where all at one point in the top 1000 for girls, However I see Jordan, along with Aubrey and Taylor, as the few exceptions.
Jordan, in my opinion, sounds more feminine to me than masculine. One reason is the river it comes from. When I think of the Jordan river, I (and many other people) think of purity (baptism of Jesus), nature, serenity, holiness (to christians, not muslims like me, but still), beauty and easy flowing, all of which are associated with many girl names (such as Faith, Grace, Willow, Serenity, Lily, Jasmine, etc.). Since the river Jordan is very often associated with many of these, it makes sense why some see it as feminine. Also, I'd say majority of place names are girl names (such as Erin, India and Roma). The sound also just seems feminine to me, I know that's subjective, but I thought I would put that out.
Now to address some criticisms, the most common is "it's too masculine/handsome/harsh sounding for a girl" Firstly, that is subjective, Just because you think it's too harsh doesn't mean everybody does or has too. Secondly, I explained why I and some other people think it sounds more feminine than masculine. Thirdly, There are many common girl names that are also harsh and masculine sounding, but don't receive as much criticism. Morgan, Frances, and Rachel in particular (to be clear, I also like Frances and Rachel, but that's not my point)
Morgan and Frances where once strictly boy names and became extremely popular for girls, and they are just as harsh and masculine, but they (from what I've seen) have been mostly immune from criticism. I don't see people begging not to name their girls them and use Morgana and Francesca instead, talking about how hideous on a girl they are (actually, there are a couple, but peanuts in comparison). Is it because they both have been unisex for hundreds of years before Jordan? well that does make them any less masculine sounding or the fact they were originally for boys. Rachel is also a harsh sounding name, if it were originally a boy's name, would it really be that odd? If you hate Jordan for a girl, but love Morgan and Frances, please let me know why. Because I truly don't see the difference between naming your daughter Jordan and naming your daughter Morgan.
Another criticism is that it's trendy. I don't see that as a negative because the fact a name is trendy doesn't mean it's a bad name, it just means it won't be timeless like Alexander or Elizabeth. And I personally wish Jordan was here to stay, because I think it's an actually good name on a girl.
In conclusion, I hope I have convinced some of you to be more accepting of Jordan as a feminine name. You can still hate it on a girl, but don't whine us who like it on a girl for the reasons I stated above.
This message was edited 8/28/2014, 7:08 PM
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Replies
I agree with you on this. Jordan, to me, is not for a boy. I always think of Jordan as being a more feminine name. I actually have a friend, her name is
Jordan Elizabeth and her twin sister is named Morgan Addison. I absolutely lobe those two names together. Jordan evokes a sense of beauty and tranquility to me.
Jordan Elizabeth and her twin sister is named Morgan Addison. I absolutely lobe those two names together. Jordan evokes a sense of beauty and tranquility to me.
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Technically, Frances isn't really unisex anymore. It was, but then it was regarded as the feminine form of Francis from the 1600s onward.
But anyway, nice defense. I may not agree, but you put together a really good argument for your feelings on it. Nice.
I think the main reason why Jordan is of a different caliber than Morgan is because Morgan has, like you said, been used on girls as well as boys for awhile (and because Morgan really is feminine, in its Arthurian roots). These names have histories as girl name, which make them more credible than names like Jordan.
Interesting take on the Jordan River thing, by the way. Although, in Chinese culture (especially yin and yang), masculinity is actually more associated with purity and light, so the view's kinda fluid. Still, interesting.
But anyway, nice defense. I may not agree, but you put together a really good argument for your feelings on it. Nice.
I think the main reason why Jordan is of a different caliber than Morgan is because Morgan has, like you said, been used on girls as well as boys for awhile (and because Morgan really is feminine, in its Arthurian roots). These names have histories as girl name, which make them more credible than names like Jordan.
Interesting take on the Jordan River thing, by the way. Although, in Chinese culture (especially yin and yang), masculinity is actually more associated with purity and light, so the view's kinda fluid. Still, interesting.
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Jordan is not at all uncommon on girls; nothing new there. Even shows up as a female character in the Great Gatsby.
Take popularity stats with a grain of salt. Remember that mistakes happen, which is why on older charts you'll see "names" like Baby, Girl, Unnamed and Male listed, when of course nobody is named Unnamed. Likewise on older lists you'll see listings for William as a girl's name and Mary as a boy's names. These are mistakes in data-collection and entry, not reality.
Parker has gained some popularity (very limited) as a girl's name, and Micah even more limited, but Gabriel and especially Nicholas are not girl's names and are unlikely to ever be listed as used more than five times a year; I believe that for the sake of privacy, the Social Security people do not rank names unless they are used by at least five or ten (or some other number) of people.
Take popularity stats with a grain of salt. Remember that mistakes happen, which is why on older charts you'll see "names" like Baby, Girl, Unnamed and Male listed, when of course nobody is named Unnamed. Likewise on older lists you'll see listings for William as a girl's name and Mary as a boy's names. These are mistakes in data-collection and entry, not reality.
Parker has gained some popularity (very limited) as a girl's name, and Micah even more limited, but Gabriel and especially Nicholas are not girl's names and are unlikely to ever be listed as used more than five times a year; I believe that for the sake of privacy, the Social Security people do not rank names unless they are used by at least five or ten (or some other number) of people.
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Personally, I don't think Jordan needs a defense. It's one of the truly unisex names out there with a long history (Crusaders brought the name back for both sexes). At one time, I preferred it for a male (Nicholas Jordan was high on my list for dd #2 had she been a boy), however, I now prefer it for a female. My only complaint is the Jordyn spelling which doesn't look attractive at all and cheapens the name (apologies to anyone connected with this spelling).
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That's interesting! Do you have a citation for that? I'm not about to fall head-over-heels for Jordan on a girl (or a boy, for that matter), but it would maybe make me a little less sad if I knew it had more of a history as such.
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I actually learned that from BtN:
"From the name of the river which flows between the countries of Jordan and Israel. The river's name in Hebrew is יַרְדֵן (Yarden), and it is derived from יָרַד (yarad) meaning "descend" or "flow down". In the New Testament John the Baptist baptizes Jesus Christ in its waters, and it was adopted as a personal name in Europe after crusaders brought water back from the river to baptize their children. There may have been some influence from the Germanic name JORDANES, notably borne by a 6th-century Gothic historian.
This name died out after the Middle Ages, but was revived in the 19th century. In America and other countries it became fairly popular in the second half of the 20th century. A famous bearer of the surname is former basketball star Michael Jordan (1963-)."
It makes sense to me that Jordan as a name started out this way and probably Jordana was used later to make it more feminine.
"From the name of the river which flows between the countries of Jordan and Israel. The river's name in Hebrew is יַרְדֵן (Yarden), and it is derived from יָרַד (yarad) meaning "descend" or "flow down". In the New Testament John the Baptist baptizes Jesus Christ in its waters, and it was adopted as a personal name in Europe after crusaders brought water back from the river to baptize their children. There may have been some influence from the Germanic name JORDANES, notably borne by a 6th-century Gothic historian.
This name died out after the Middle Ages, but was revived in the 19th century. In America and other countries it became fairly popular in the second half of the 20th century. A famous bearer of the surname is former basketball star Michael Jordan (1963-)."
It makes sense to me that Jordan as a name started out this way and probably Jordana was used later to make it more feminine.
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Oh, I'm an idiot
I guess I thought I'd already looked it up on here, though obviously I hadn't, so it didn't occur to me to do so again. Sorry, and thank you!
I guess I thought I'd already looked it up on here, though obviously I hadn't, so it didn't occur to me to do so again. Sorry, and thank you!
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Not just on girls...
I have a relative named Jordyn, who's actually a boy (though I can't exactly remember how he's related to me. Second half-cousin or something? Those things always confounded me). I had no idea that's how his mom spelled his name until I saw it written out. I'm not sure if Jordyn irritates me more on a boy or a girl. Seriously, if you're gonna use Jordan, spell it Jordan, regardless of gender.
I have a relative named Jordyn, who's actually a boy (though I can't exactly remember how he's related to me. Second half-cousin or something? Those things always confounded me). I had no idea that's how his mom spelled his name until I saw it written out. I'm not sure if Jordyn irritates me more on a boy or a girl. Seriously, if you're gonna use Jordan, spell it Jordan, regardless of gender.
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I will be short; I do not care or like Jordan on a girl. You did not convince me to be more accepting.
If you like Jordan on a girl, thats fine. Thats your personal preference
I just see it as a masculine name and see it as more boyish and fitted for a boy.
Over in Usa, I'm certain that jordan is more popular among the girls but regardless, I see it as a boys name. I will always see it as a boys name.
If you like Jordan on a girl, thats fine. Thats your personal preference
I just see it as a masculine name and see it as more boyish and fitted for a boy.
Over in Usa, I'm certain that jordan is more popular among the girls but regardless, I see it as a boys name. I will always see it as a boys name.
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I said this thread is not dedicated towards people like you, but rather ones who enforce their opinions on others.
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I'm not sure how long you've been here, but no one forces their opinion on others. I'm not sure where you're getting that.
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These people: http://www.behindthename.com/name/jordan/comments
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Most of the people who write comments don't frequent this board. I would take the comments section with a grain of salt, because people like to drop in, say nasty things, and never come back.
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Just what???
I clearly stated that its fine that you like Jordan for a girl.
I prefer it for a boy. I am NOT forcing you to like it for a boy. Me liking Jordan for a boy is my opinion and my preference. Just because you like it for a girl, doesnt meN everyone else has to.
And why would I even bother to enforce my opinion? Whats the sense when we all have opinions? No reason to start a petty arguement.
Not really sure what your getting at.
I clearly stated that its fine that you like Jordan for a girl.
I prefer it for a boy. I am NOT forcing you to like it for a boy. Me liking Jordan for a boy is my opinion and my preference. Just because you like it for a girl, doesnt meN everyone else has to.
And why would I even bother to enforce my opinion? Whats the sense when we all have opinions? No reason to start a petty arguement.
Not really sure what your getting at.
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I'm not starting an argument. YOU'RE the one who's putting words in my mouth. I will say this again: This is not meant towards people who personally don't like Jordan for a girl, but those who get irritated when you do use it for a girl.
This message was edited 8/29/2014, 7:52 AM
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Nah
To be honest, I do get a bit annoyed when someone uses Jordan on a girl but it's not something I would like to get into an arguement with. Trying to argue your point on which gender you prefer a name thats diferent from another person is futile.
'But those who get irritated when you do use it for a girl'
You stated that you like Jordan for a girl. So why do you need to find someone who is against that name on that gender?
That's...not making a whole lot of sense.
Thats all I'm going to say about this.
I wish for this conversation to be over ^_^
To be honest, I do get a bit annoyed when someone uses Jordan on a girl but it's not something I would like to get into an arguement with. Trying to argue your point on which gender you prefer a name thats diferent from another person is futile.
'But those who get irritated when you do use it for a girl'
You stated that you like Jordan for a girl. So why do you need to find someone who is against that name on that gender?
That's...not making a whole lot of sense.
Thats all I'm going to say about this.
I wish for this conversation to be over ^_^
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I think this is just a bit of a misunderstanding
Or a miscommunication. I don't think either of you are meaning to offend or argue with the other. :)
Or a miscommunication. I don't think either of you are meaning to offend or argue with the other. :)
This message was edited 8/29/2014, 9:15 AM
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Wait so you can "subjectively" like it on a girl but no one else can "subjectively" dislike it??? Uhhhh, logic?
Also, you say...
"One reason is the river it comes from. When I think of the Jordan river, I (and many other people) think of purity (baptism of Jesus), nature, serenity, holiness (to christians, not muslims like me, but still), beauty and easy flowing"
...and I could say that these characteristic are easily applicable to boys, as well
For the record, I like Jordan for both genders
Also, you say...
"One reason is the river it comes from. When I think of the Jordan river, I (and many other people) think of purity (baptism of Jesus), nature, serenity, holiness (to christians, not muslims like me, but still), beauty and easy flowing"
...and I could say that these characteristic are easily applicable to boys, as well
For the record, I like Jordan for both genders
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"You can still hate it on a girl,"
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I just don't understand what the difference is between using subjective arguments in FAVOR of Jordon on a girl, and subjective arguments AGAINST Jordan on a girl. I mean aren't you kind of doing the EXACT SAME THING you're preaching against? You just happen to be on the opposite side
Disliking Jordan on a girl and whining to others about it is absolutely no different than whining about people who don't like Jordan on a girl.
Basically, this post would have been more at home in the "comments" section for Jordan. I mean I haven't read the comments but I get the impression maybe you're trying to address the naysayers from there? If so you should know that a lot (maybe even majority) of those people don't actually frequent the message boards
Disliking Jordan on a girl and whining to others about it is absolutely no different than whining about people who don't like Jordan on a girl.
Basically, this post would have been more at home in the "comments" section for Jordan. I mean I haven't read the comments but I get the impression maybe you're trying to address the naysayers from there? If so you should know that a lot (maybe even majority) of those people don't actually frequent the message boards
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Sometimes assiation makes a difference. My boyfriend's name is Jordan and he's not a flower-boy :p
But I don't hate it on a girl either, just like I think Skye and Avery are good for both boys and girls. Some names just are and for me Jordan is one of them. I don't think people really whine at people who like Jordan for a girl. Not as crazy as they get about Mackenzie on a girl anyway!! Which I like as well. But people seriously hate on that one. Most seem to not mind Jordan as much.
Pretty much rambling here, sorry!! I just wanted to say that I don't think Jordan is un-masucline but I like it for a girl too.
But I don't hate it on a girl either, just like I think Skye and Avery are good for both boys and girls. Some names just are and for me Jordan is one of them. I don't think people really whine at people who like Jordan for a girl. Not as crazy as they get about Mackenzie on a girl anyway!! Which I like as well. But people seriously hate on that one. Most seem to not mind Jordan as much.
Pretty much rambling here, sorry!! I just wanted to say that I don't think Jordan is un-masucline but I like it for a girl too.
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Are people getting heckled for liking Jordan on a girl? I have expressed that opinion many times over the years, and I don't recall anyone heckling me. Disagreeing , sure, but not heckling.
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I meant whining, I changed it.
This message was edited 8/28/2014, 6:34 PM
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Dictionary definition: interrupt a public speaker with derisive or aggressive comments or abuse.
I don't really think posts like this are necessary, because we're all free to think whatever we want, here. I have always liked Jordan for a girl, but it doesn't bother me that most BtNers don't. That's life.
I don't really think posts like this are necessary, because we're all free to think whatever we want, here. I have always liked Jordan for a girl, but it doesn't bother me that most BtNers don't. That's life.
This message was edited 8/28/2014, 6:38 PM
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It's a few days till school starts where I live and all my friends have jobs. I really have no life right now, Some i'm just killing time here.
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