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Help[Opinions] American boys with girls' names?!!
I was just looking through the list of top 1000 American boys' names from 1890-1899, and was absolutely astounded to find the following:
79. Jessie
112. Marion
249. Mary
266. Pearl
420. Anna
498. Florence
506. Frances
517. Elza
536. Ethel
572. Margaret
602. Minnie
608. Elizabeth
611. Helen
626. Emma
645. Ruth
654. Grace
657. Lillian
690. Alice
693. Bertha
693. Rose
721. Marie
735. Annie
748. Gertrude
752. Nellie
756. Allison
756. Louise
776. Elsie
802. Clara
802. Ida
806. Edna
816. Bessie
840. Myrtle
861. Lillie
864. Martha
868. Edith
886. Mabel
886. Sarah
901. Claire
919. Esther
919. Eva
934. Mildred
936. Ella
938. Maude
949. Laura
959. May
974. Irene
995. Ada
It seems there are just too many of them for it to be an error. Can anyone American help out the ignorant foreigner here and tell me if this was a normal thing? And do any of you know of men with these names?
79. Jessie
112. Marion
249. Mary
266. Pearl
420. Anna
498. Florence
506. Frances
517. Elza
536. Ethel
572. Margaret
602. Minnie
608. Elizabeth
611. Helen
626. Emma
645. Ruth
654. Grace
657. Lillian
690. Alice
693. Bertha
693. Rose
721. Marie
735. Annie
748. Gertrude
752. Nellie
756. Allison
756. Louise
776. Elsie
802. Clara
802. Ida
806. Edna
816. Bessie
840. Myrtle
861. Lillie
864. Martha
868. Edith
886. Mabel
886. Sarah
901. Claire
919. Esther
919. Eva
934. Mildred
936. Ella
938. Maude
949. Laura
959. May
974. Irene
995. Ada
It seems there are just too many of them for it to be an error. Can anyone American help out the ignorant foreigner here and tell me if this was a normal thing? And do any of you know of men with these names?
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Replies
These are simple...
I agree with the other poster that stated that a lot of these are coding errors.
79. Jessie: Another form of Jesse. This one looks female but back when a lot of people were illiterate and simply spelled things phonetically.
112. Marion: This was originally a male name. John Wayne's real names was Marion.
266. Pearl: This was also a male name back when. It was often nicknamed Pearlie.
506. Frances: Ditto the phonetics thing.
756. Allison: This one was also originally a male name as it followed the -son.
I agree with the other poster that stated that a lot of these are coding errors.
79. Jessie: Another form of Jesse. This one looks female but back when a lot of people were illiterate and simply spelled things phonetically.
112. Marion: This was originally a male name. John Wayne's real names was Marion.
266. Pearl: This was also a male name back when. It was often nicknamed Pearlie.
506. Frances: Ditto the phonetics thing.
756. Allison: This one was also originally a male name as it followed the -son.
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Not true about Allison.
Actually, Allison has two origins.
One is etymologically feminine, of French origin. Alice --> Alicen (French diminuitive) --> Alison (Scottish spelling of Alicen after Norman invasion of Britain). The spelling Allison is a variant.
One is etymologically masculine, of Anglo-Saxon origin. Allison means "son of Al" (or probably other Al- names) or "son of Alice."
Actually, Allison has two origins.
One is etymologically feminine, of French origin. Alice --> Alicen (French diminuitive) --> Alison (Scottish spelling of Alicen after Norman invasion of Britain). The spelling Allison is a variant.
One is etymologically masculine, of Anglo-Saxon origin. Allison means "son of Al" (or probably other Al- names) or "son of Alice."
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As far as I know, these list include second or third middle names. And then, even more then now, it was common to honour relatives or godparents. So Pearl, a not uncommon surname, was probably the mothers maiden name. Or Anna was the grandmothers name and the child was called James Anna Smith.
I aso agree on there beeing a lot of mistakes in the data.
I aso agree on there beeing a lot of mistakes in the data.
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The data consists only of first names.
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Errors in Coding
I believe that it's rather common for there to be errors in the data processing where the sex was incorrectly entered. In 1989, Jennifer is listed as the 821 boys name, I remember reading that was an error.
According to the BabynameWizard.com FAQ
Girls named George? Boys named Christ? Whoa!
The data, especially from the earliest years of the sample, reflect some artifacts of the data entry process. A century ago, names like George, William and Christopher were routinely written as abbreviations (Geo, Wm, Christ). Coding errors, where the wrong sex was marked on a form, were also more likely to slip through back then. If a name was extremely common, these errors and abbreviations could end up among the 1000 top listings. Eliminating these names would introduce new errors and biases into the data, so they've been included as reported in the original SSA figures. But no, I don't believe there really were hundreds of girls named George.
I believe that it's rather common for there to be errors in the data processing where the sex was incorrectly entered. In 1989, Jennifer is listed as the 821 boys name, I remember reading that was an error.
According to the BabynameWizard.com FAQ
Girls named George? Boys named Christ? Whoa!
The data, especially from the earliest years of the sample, reflect some artifacts of the data entry process. A century ago, names like George, William and Christopher were routinely written as abbreviations (Geo, Wm, Christ). Coding errors, where the wrong sex was marked on a form, were also more likely to slip through back then. If a name was extremely common, these errors and abbreviations could end up among the 1000 top listings. Eliminating these names would introduce new errors and biases into the data, so they've been included as reported in the original SSA figures. But no, I don't believe there really were hundreds of girls named George.
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Ah, thanks for that. My first thought was that it must be an error, but there were just so many of them - and Mary, and various others, are listed as boy's names in rather a lot of the US popularity charts, so I just had to ask. I guess this sort of thing just slips through on any large collection of data: an ancestor of mine is listed in the 1881 census as 'Hammerley' which is the weirdest transcription of Emily I've ever seen. :)
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Yes, this.
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I know a male Marion.
Other than that I haven't met any. I think Ida could be a boy though; Ira is a boys name and going by sound alone, Ida sounds much more masculine than Ira.
Also, when I was a kid I thought it was wiers that Allison was a girls name because it's like "Alice's son"... kind of like Johnson means John's son ans Jackson means Jack's son/
Other than that I haven't met any. I think Ida could be a boy though; Ira is a boys name and going by sound alone, Ida sounds much more masculine than Ira.
Also, when I was a kid I thought it was wiers that Allison was a girls name because it's like "Alice's son"... kind of like Johnson means John's son ans Jackson means Jack's son/
This message was edited 7/24/2009, 9:39 PM
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I think a lot of it is (back then) was a girl accidently recorded as a boy or parents who really wanted a girl.
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well these I find unisex [m]
UNISEX
79. Jessie
112. Marion
266. Pearl
498. Florence
506. Frances
654. Grace
693. Rose
721. Marie
752. Nellie
756. Allison
840. Myrtle
861. Lillie
901. Claire
938. Maude
959. May
I heard of men with these names:
Jessie
Marion
Mary
Pearl
Lily
Florence
Frances
Grace
Alice
Elizabeth
Allison
ETA: I don't see the big deal either, girls have men names all the time.
UNISEX
79. Jessie
112. Marion
266. Pearl
498. Florence
506. Frances
654. Grace
693. Rose
721. Marie
752. Nellie
756. Allison
840. Myrtle
861. Lillie
901. Claire
938. Maude
959. May
I heard of men with these names:
Jessie
Marion
Mary
Pearl
Lily
Florence
Frances
Grace
Alice
Elizabeth
Allison
ETA: I don't see the big deal either, girls have men names all the time.
This message was edited 7/24/2009, 4:11 PM
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Oh, not saying there's anything wrong with it at all - like you say, happens all the time the other way round, so why not? :) I just didn't know it was such a common trend back then in the US, and so it's really interesting. I can sort of see how Marion and Jessie and maybe even Pearl and Florence could be unisex, but the others... wow.
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Actually I just found boys with these names :) [m]
from a site that lists all the babies in the state, and the gender.
Lily x 2
Elizabeth x 3
Sarah x 8
Rebecca x 4
Whitney x 12
Grace x 3
and more, and they are not errors.
ETA: there's even two boy's with my own name (Sabrina), and I found some sites that list my name as unisex.
from a site that lists all the babies in the state, and the gender.
Lily x 2
Elizabeth x 3
Sarah x 8
Rebecca x 4
Whitney x 12
Grace x 3
and more, and they are not errors.
ETA: there's even two boy's with my own name (Sabrina), and I found some sites that list my name as unisex.
This message was edited 7/24/2009, 4:15 PM
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Actually, Jessie, Marion, Pearl, Florence, and Frances (Francis) are considered to be male names. I think even Marie and Allison are consider male even though they aren't listed as unisex on this site. I still think it's very possible quite a few to be errors. Back then they didn't have birth certificates and records weren't always clear. Then again I'm sure some are really men with those names. I can't give an explanation other than the parents just wanted to name their son Elizabeth or Irene just like parents today name their daughters Dylan and Hunter. Maybe some were family names and the parents didn't have a daughter to pass them down to.
This message was edited 7/24/2009, 4:00 PM
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Thanks! Marion on a man I think I've heard before, and Jessie and Frances are obviously just Jesse and Francis with different spellings. But I had no idea about the others. I guess Florence is a city and Pearl is a precious stone, so there's no real reason why they shouldn't be girls' names, but it's still really surprising.
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Ashley was a male name long before it was female.
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I hate it on a girl.
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