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HelpWhat do honoring names mean to you? :)
What do they mean to you? Does your family have a tradition of honoring names or no? How important is it to you to keep to tradition? Why? :)
My middle name is after my grandma, but my parents purposefully didn’t give me an honoring first name even though that’s what most others in the family did.
My middle name is after my grandma, but my parents purposefully didn’t give me an honoring first name even though that’s what most others in the family did.
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I hate the ideal of it, I feel like you're limiting yourself to a small pool of names when you do that. My own family doesn't really do it, although my dad is a junior and wanted my brother to be a third, but my mom said no--our dads' first name is my brother's middle. And my middle name is my mother's mom's middle name. I think my dad's sister kids, have honoring in the middle--her two boys, have their grandfathers names in the middle.
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I always planned on using at least one honoring name (as a MN) but it didn't feel quite as important to me once I was actually pregnant. I like the idea of honoring names, but at the same time I don't want to end up in the position where I have to use a honoring name or a specific name just because I used honoring names with my first child (he got my grandpa's FN as his MN).
My dad is named after his uncle who passed away young, one of his MN is honoring as well. My mother's MN is honoring some aunt or something. Both of my brother's MN's are honoring, and only one of mine (the same name as my mom's MN). So honoring names is pretty common in my family, but nobody would raise an eyebrow if you didn't use a honoring name - my brother didn't do it for his son and nobody cares.
My dad is named after his uncle who passed away young, one of his MN is honoring as well. My mother's MN is honoring some aunt or something. Both of my brother's MN's are honoring, and only one of mine (the same name as my mom's MN). So honoring names is pretty common in my family, but nobody would raise an eyebrow if you didn't use a honoring name - my brother didn't do it for his son and nobody cares.
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My grandfather was the third in a line of men with the same first name, and middle names starting with the same initial. For example: George Floyd, George Frederick, George Francis. His son, my uncle, had the same name (i.e. George Francis). Even though they mainly had different middle names, they used name suffixes - Sr., Jr., III and IV.
My uncle gave HIS son a name that only had the same initials (think Grant Forrest). I thought that was kind of a cop-out.
That side of my family frequently used surnames from their family tree as middle names. This is actually really handy for genealogy. If there's no legal documentation on record for a couple, and the wife's name is Mary, good luck finding out which of a zillion Marys she was - unless they helpfully gave their son the middle name Herzberger or something.
I'm a fan of using honoring names and maintaining name traditions, just because it gives a sense of continuity. I personally would use an honoring name after a beloved relative or friend, living or dead. If they were alive, I'd ask them first. If I didn't like the name, I'd put it in the middle. I also like the idea of using family surnames in the middle to sort of keep them alive.
My uncle gave HIS son a name that only had the same initials (think Grant Forrest). I thought that was kind of a cop-out.
That side of my family frequently used surnames from their family tree as middle names. This is actually really handy for genealogy. If there's no legal documentation on record for a couple, and the wife's name is Mary, good luck finding out which of a zillion Marys she was - unless they helpfully gave their son the middle name Herzberger or something.
I'm a fan of using honoring names and maintaining name traditions, just because it gives a sense of continuity. I personally would use an honoring name after a beloved relative or friend, living or dead. If they were alive, I'd ask them first. If I didn't like the name, I'd put it in the middle. I also like the idea of using family surnames in the middle to sort of keep them alive.
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Every one of my mom's siblings gave at least one of their children an honoring FN and/or MN.
I plan on giving any future children honoring MNs:
Mae for my grandmother (her MN)
James for my grandfather (his FN)
Dorothea for my mom and great-aunt (MN and FN Dorothy)
Patrick (GM FN Patricia) or Joseph (GF MN) or maybe even Magnus to kind of honor my dad because I don't like either of his names lol (he really wanted to name both my younger sisters Magnus if either of them had been a boy, and he still talks about it!)
I probably won't give purposefully honoring FNs unless I really like the name as well, and it wouldn't be for the sole purpose of being honoring. Though Dorothea Mae would sound super cute, actually.
I plan on giving any future children honoring MNs:
Mae for my grandmother (her MN)
James for my grandfather (his FN)
Dorothea for my mom and great-aunt (MN and FN Dorothy)
Patrick (GM FN Patricia) or Joseph (GF MN) or maybe even Magnus to kind of honor my dad because I don't like either of his names lol (he really wanted to name both my younger sisters Magnus if either of them had been a boy, and he still talks about it!)
I probably won't give purposefully honoring FNs unless I really like the name as well, and it wouldn't be for the sole purpose of being honoring. Though Dorothea Mae would sound super cute, actually.
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Thanks for sharing!
It was so interesting hearing all of your traditions and thoughts on honoring names :)
Some of my family uses honoring names. E.g., My dad was named after his dad and my cousin was named after his dad. This practice can be quite common in the Czech Republic (because of this, I joke that's why there are only like 20 boy names in the language lol). Meanwhile, I grew up for the most part in America, but still have half my family overseas. Those direct father/son, mother/daughter names don't sit well with me, mostly because I know lots of people named after their parents who are totally estranged from them now.
I do think, however, that middle names, sometimes first names are a great way to honor someone who means a lot of you and has very strong emotional ties. Or even, just a name that you feel ties to certain values.
So this thread made me realize that while I tend to shy away from the idea of naming someone after a family member, there are certain names of friends or people I greatly admire that I think would make great honoring names, like Judith (Butler) or Simone (de Beauvoir). Because I both like those names themselves and have a lot of respect for those theorists and their contributions. On that note, I'm not planning on having children any time soon, but I do really like thinking about the intentionality of names and learning about people's stories and how they got their name :)
It was so interesting hearing all of your traditions and thoughts on honoring names :)
Some of my family uses honoring names. E.g., My dad was named after his dad and my cousin was named after his dad. This practice can be quite common in the Czech Republic (because of this, I joke that's why there are only like 20 boy names in the language lol). Meanwhile, I grew up for the most part in America, but still have half my family overseas. Those direct father/son, mother/daughter names don't sit well with me, mostly because I know lots of people named after their parents who are totally estranged from them now.
I do think, however, that middle names, sometimes first names are a great way to honor someone who means a lot of you and has very strong emotional ties. Or even, just a name that you feel ties to certain values.
So this thread made me realize that while I tend to shy away from the idea of naming someone after a family member, there are certain names of friends or people I greatly admire that I think would make great honoring names, like Judith (Butler) or Simone (de Beauvoir). Because I both like those names themselves and have a lot of respect for those theorists and their contributions. On that note, I'm not planning on having children any time soon, but I do really like thinking about the intentionality of names and learning about people's stories and how they got their name :)
This message was edited 3/23/2019, 11:09 AM
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It is a tradition in my family to use two middle names. Technically, the tradition is to use two saints' names (usually one being the saint of your Name Day), but since many family members have a saint's name as their first name already, it works out as honouring family members.
I was named after my mom and my great grandmother. My brother was named after my mom's estranged father and our great grandfather.
My SO is not keen on two middle names, but he knows how important the tradition is to me. Plus, he let his mom guilt him into giving our children his abusive father's last name (we were going to use my last name only, but now it will be hyphenated as myLN-hisLN). So, in that bargain, we agreed that middle names are now completely up to me, and I am determined to give any kids we have two middle names. It's the last connection I have to my culture.
A boy will be Theodore Bronius Mark. Bronius after my grandpa and Mark after my dad. Theodore also happens to honour SO's great grandpa, but really, we're using it because we just love it. It's a bonus though that it makes MIL happy.
A girl is trickier. Her name will be Genevieve Florence ________. I can't make up my mind about the second middle name. Possibly Margot after my grandma or Irene after my great grandma. Florence is after my great grandma. Genevieve is, of course, after my favourite saint.
ETA: I also just wanted to add that we try to use French, Greek, Lithuanian, and Macedonian names to honour our heritage.
I was named after my mom and my great grandmother. My brother was named after my mom's estranged father and our great grandfather.
My SO is not keen on two middle names, but he knows how important the tradition is to me. Plus, he let his mom guilt him into giving our children his abusive father's last name (we were going to use my last name only, but now it will be hyphenated as myLN-hisLN). So, in that bargain, we agreed that middle names are now completely up to me, and I am determined to give any kids we have two middle names. It's the last connection I have to my culture.
A boy will be Theodore Bronius Mark. Bronius after my grandpa and Mark after my dad. Theodore also happens to honour SO's great grandpa, but really, we're using it because we just love it. It's a bonus though that it makes MIL happy.
A girl is trickier. Her name will be Genevieve Florence ________. I can't make up my mind about the second middle name. Possibly Margot after my grandma or Irene after my great grandma. Florence is after my great grandma. Genevieve is, of course, after my favourite saint.
ETA: I also just wanted to add that we try to use French, Greek, Lithuanian, and Macedonian names to honour our heritage.
This message was edited 3/22/2019, 8:58 PM
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Well, they mean a lot to me. I can't think of a better way to honor someone than to bestow their name. My daughter has an honoring middle name and my son has honoring first and middle names.
My family does not have a very strong tradition of honoring names. Well, now that I think of it, perhaps stronger than many. My father was named after his father. His oldest son was given the same name with a III after it. That's my half-brother through my father. My half-brother through my mother was given the same first name as his father and my uncle's name as a middle name. My half-sister through my mother was given one of my great-aunt's name as a middle name.
My mother was given her mother's middle name as a first name.
I am not certain about the other children of my father's first marriage. With the exception of the oldest son, I don't even know what their middle names are. They could have honoring middle names, either from my father's family or their mother's, or maybe not.
With my mother's children, the honoring stopped with my older brother and sister. I don't, and my two full sisters don't, have honoring names, either first or middle.
My brother's first son, from his first marriage, was given his name as a middle name, and the elder, by a few minutes, of the twin sons he had by his second marriage is a Junior. The other twin was given the same middle name as her son by her first marriage, which is the name that he actually goes by. My sister-in-law said she wanted to create a naming tie between one of the twins and her son from her first marriage, since they would not share a last name. But then my brother and sister-in-law had another son, and he was not given honoring names, either first or middle.
Whew, that gets complicated, doesn't it?
My older sister and youngest sister did not give any honoring names. My other sister gave my father's name as a middle to her elder son, and her younger son has his father's name as a middle name.
My husband and I named our son William James IV, so obviously keeping a tradition was important to us.
I was tickled pink when my son gave his daughter the middle name Zoe, which was my maternal grandmother's middle name, my mother's first name, and is my daughter's middle name. I never had, and never would have, suggested it.
My family does not have a very strong tradition of honoring names. Well, now that I think of it, perhaps stronger than many. My father was named after his father. His oldest son was given the same name with a III after it. That's my half-brother through my father. My half-brother through my mother was given the same first name as his father and my uncle's name as a middle name. My half-sister through my mother was given one of my great-aunt's name as a middle name.
My mother was given her mother's middle name as a first name.
I am not certain about the other children of my father's first marriage. With the exception of the oldest son, I don't even know what their middle names are. They could have honoring middle names, either from my father's family or their mother's, or maybe not.
With my mother's children, the honoring stopped with my older brother and sister. I don't, and my two full sisters don't, have honoring names, either first or middle.
My brother's first son, from his first marriage, was given his name as a middle name, and the elder, by a few minutes, of the twin sons he had by his second marriage is a Junior. The other twin was given the same middle name as her son by her first marriage, which is the name that he actually goes by. My sister-in-law said she wanted to create a naming tie between one of the twins and her son from her first marriage, since they would not share a last name. But then my brother and sister-in-law had another son, and he was not given honoring names, either first or middle.
Whew, that gets complicated, doesn't it?
My older sister and youngest sister did not give any honoring names. My other sister gave my father's name as a middle to her elder son, and her younger son has his father's name as a middle name.
My husband and I named our son William James IV, so obviously keeping a tradition was important to us.
I was tickled pink when my son gave his daughter the middle name Zoe, which was my maternal grandmother's middle name, my mother's first name, and is my daughter's middle name. I never had, and never would have, suggested it.
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Wow! Those are some really long-standing traditions! I'm impressed that you remember all of those connections :)
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I think you should only use a name honoring a person you know who means a lot to you, or that honors a branch of your family* or place/thing that is significant for you. I also think if there's a tradition going in your family that you appreciate, you ought to try to stay with it.
*I considered using the name of my great-great-grandfather for my youngest's middle name, not because I knew him, but because my own grandpa wished someone would--so it would've honored my grandpa over the name-bearer himself.
My family has a mix of honoring and non-honoring names. My own name doesn't have anything, it's just a name my parents liked. It always bothered me as a kid, I felt like that wasn't nearly as substantial. It was my goal to use an honoring middle name for my kids. I think it's also nice to give them something new, and actually liking the name is of utmost importance. If it wasn't, my youngest's middle name would be after my dad. But... ehhhhh.
His middle name actually doesn't intentionally honor anyone, although it coincidentally is the same as one of his great-grandfathers. I chose it because the meaning of it was something that I had a vision of, and I also like it, and he was so friggin hard to name that it just happened to be the combo that we most agreed on.
*I considered using the name of my great-great-grandfather for my youngest's middle name, not because I knew him, but because my own grandpa wished someone would--so it would've honored my grandpa over the name-bearer himself.
My family has a mix of honoring and non-honoring names. My own name doesn't have anything, it's just a name my parents liked. It always bothered me as a kid, I felt like that wasn't nearly as substantial. It was my goal to use an honoring middle name for my kids. I think it's also nice to give them something new, and actually liking the name is of utmost importance. If it wasn't, my youngest's middle name would be after my dad. But... ehhhhh.
His middle name actually doesn't intentionally honor anyone, although it coincidentally is the same as one of his great-grandfathers. I chose it because the meaning of it was something that I had a vision of, and I also like it, and he was so friggin hard to name that it just happened to be the combo that we most agreed on.
This message was edited 3/22/2019, 12:34 PM
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Honoring is done on both sides of my family. On my husband's side saints names are also very important.
My daughter's name does an incredible amount of honoring. Her first name, Miriam, was chosen for a multitude of reasons. My dad is a minister and I always wanted to use a Old Testament name. She has two middle names, Elizabeth and Mae. My middle name is Elizabeth and my husband wanted to use it to honor me. It's also the name of her godmother, my husband's sister. Mae was the name of my husband's grandmother. Elizabeth also referred to Elizabeth Ann Seton, making sure that my daughter is also named after a saint.
I love the idea of my daughter's name having so much history and weight. She's named after some pretty cool women, in fact my husband will often bemoan the fact that he named his daughter after the three most stubborn women he knows. It also has a lot of history to it, with Miriam being used for thousands of years.
The only thing about honoring I don't like it when people go to the family tree and find names that they like, use them, and then claim it's honoring. My cousin did this, he chose Josephine after our great grandmother. She was not a particularly nice or loving person, and none of us have any memories of her at all. If I remember correctly she would have died in the 50s or 60s, well before we were all born. ( my grandfather was the youngest of seven and was born in 1915)
My daughter's name does an incredible amount of honoring. Her first name, Miriam, was chosen for a multitude of reasons. My dad is a minister and I always wanted to use a Old Testament name. She has two middle names, Elizabeth and Mae. My middle name is Elizabeth and my husband wanted to use it to honor me. It's also the name of her godmother, my husband's sister. Mae was the name of my husband's grandmother. Elizabeth also referred to Elizabeth Ann Seton, making sure that my daughter is also named after a saint.
I love the idea of my daughter's name having so much history and weight. She's named after some pretty cool women, in fact my husband will often bemoan the fact that he named his daughter after the three most stubborn women he knows. It also has a lot of history to it, with Miriam being used for thousands of years.
The only thing about honoring I don't like it when people go to the family tree and find names that they like, use them, and then claim it's honoring. My cousin did this, he chose Josephine after our great grandmother. She was not a particularly nice or loving person, and none of us have any memories of her at all. If I remember correctly she would have died in the 50s or 60s, well before we were all born. ( my grandfather was the youngest of seven and was born in 1915)
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Yeah, I also agree that honoring names should have some emotional significance.
It's interesting that as a kid it bothered you that you didn't have that honoring name. I personally strongly disliked my honoring middle name as a kid (say, elementary through high school) because it was so old fashioned and my dad actually misspelled his mother's name on my birth certificate. Whoops.
It's interesting that as a kid it bothered you that you didn't have that honoring name. I personally strongly disliked my honoring middle name as a kid (say, elementary through high school) because it was so old fashioned and my dad actually misspelled his mother's name on my birth certificate. Whoops.
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Honoring names are one of those subjects that I don't think much of. It's' nice to honor but at the same time, I don't believe it's a critical necessity. Just something that you either strongly wish to do or not wish to do.
At the moment, the only honoring name that I can see myself using (and likely will giving if I'm ever blessed with a baby girl) would be 'Faye' after my late mother whom I was very close with.
My family doesn't keep really keep a tradition of using honoring names as only a scattering of members here and there have them. (Mae, Leroy, James, Lee being just some of them. All middle names) Sometimes one is used, other times they aren't.
At the moment, the only honoring name that I can see myself using (and likely will giving if I'm ever blessed with a baby girl) would be 'Faye' after my late mother whom I was very close with.
My family doesn't keep really keep a tradition of using honoring names as only a scattering of members here and there have them. (Mae, Leroy, James, Lee being just some of them. All middle names) Sometimes one is used, other times they aren't.
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I think that honoring names do mean the most when they are after someone you care about very much, like in the case of your mother.
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In my culture, honoring is done through initials. Specifically, the initials of a loved deceased family member who has not been honored yet.
So, for example, let's say your name is Lillian Beatrice. Maybe your late great-grandpa was Laurence Bradford. And his late uncle was Lester Benjamin. And his late grandma was Lois Beryl. And so on.
My first name was just a name my parents liked. My middle name was kind of a "who hasn't been honored yet?" reference to a long-lost-great-aunt type of thing, whose name was Celia (my mn is Cara).
It is very important to me that I continue this tradition. If I have a child, their initials will be MH to honor my father.
So, for example, let's say your name is Lillian Beatrice. Maybe your late great-grandpa was Laurence Bradford. And his late uncle was Lester Benjamin. And his late grandma was Lois Beryl. And so on.
My first name was just a name my parents liked. My middle name was kind of a "who hasn't been honored yet?" reference to a long-lost-great-aunt type of thing, whose name was Celia (my mn is Cara).
It is very important to me that I continue this tradition. If I have a child, their initials will be MH to honor my father.
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I'm glad you have this tradition :) I think honoring by initials is nice because you still have that connection, but everyone can have like an individual connection to their own name and not feel too tied to the expectations of being named directly after someone, if you know what I mean?
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My sister and I have honoring names (I post with mine). So do my parents and most of their siblings. I'd say it's traditional in my family, though more common for boys.
I have a vague uneasy feeling about the idea of giving a kid exactly the same name as a family member: as if it wouldn't be my prerogative to give away some else's name, so me doing so would be bad luck; or, I feel like it doesn't give the kid enough space to be their own person (as if it'd be me trying to project an identity onto them that isn't theirs, because in my mind the name'd already belong to someone else? idk). Also, on some level, it feels like plagiarism to me, I guess.
I like the idea of honoring a memory (through meaning) or having some connecting link (like a similar sound maybe?) in a name, but I'd do it in a more distant way.
I have a vague uneasy feeling about the idea of giving a kid exactly the same name as a family member: as if it wouldn't be my prerogative to give away some else's name, so me doing so would be bad luck; or, I feel like it doesn't give the kid enough space to be their own person (as if it'd be me trying to project an identity onto them that isn't theirs, because in my mind the name'd already belong to someone else? idk). Also, on some level, it feels like plagiarism to me, I guess.
I like the idea of honoring a memory (through meaning) or having some connecting link (like a similar sound maybe?) in a name, but I'd do it in a more distant way.
This message was edited 3/22/2019, 9:04 AM
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Yeah, I agree a lot. I know at least 4-5 people who were named directly after their mother or father and about 3/4 of those friends are now estranged from their parents. I don't know if that's a coincidence or if it subconsciously puts a lot of pressure on people. But I also don't think it's a good idea.
I think honoring a memories or like a looser connection can be really nice.
I think honoring a memories or like a looser connection can be really nice.
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My mother's family has southern US roots and the extended family has always been close, so honoring names come pretty naturally. Most of our middle names are family names:
Arrington - Originally a ln, used as a mn in my direct maternal line for a few generations (including me), will be used as either a fn (male) or mn (female) for my first child due in September
Foster - Originally a male fn, now used as a mn for a female cousin of mine
Simmington - Originally a ln, used as a mn for a few generations
Caroll - Originally a male fn, used as a mn now
I don't think anyone in the family would be upset if we don't go with an honoring name, but I really love the idea of this long line of connections!
Arrington - Originally a ln, used as a mn in my direct maternal line for a few generations (including me), will be used as either a fn (male) or mn (female) for my first child due in September
Foster - Originally a male fn, now used as a mn for a female cousin of mine
Simmington - Originally a ln, used as a mn for a few generations
Caroll - Originally a male fn, used as a mn now
I don't think anyone in the family would be upset if we don't go with an honoring name, but I really love the idea of this long line of connections!
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That's neat! I like how those names were adopted from last names, rather than just being named after family members.
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Both of my kids have both first and middle name honoring names.
We didn't really plan it that way. We knew we wanted middle names as honoring names. But then, I absolutely fell in love with giving my daughter the name Amalia which is after my great grandma. There was nothing else I liked more, so she got first and middle honoring names. Then I had my son, who is the only boy on either side of the family. So, it was really important to us to name him after his grandpas.
If we were to have a third, we'd definitely still have an honoring middle name, but not necessarily an honoring first name, even though my other two have it.
We didn't really plan it that way. We knew we wanted middle names as honoring names. But then, I absolutely fell in love with giving my daughter the name Amalia which is after my great grandma. There was nothing else I liked more, so she got first and middle honoring names. Then I had my son, who is the only boy on either side of the family. So, it was really important to us to name him after his grandpas.
If we were to have a third, we'd definitely still have an honoring middle name, but not necessarily an honoring first name, even though my other two have it.
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It's so great that you found names that you loved and that ended up being honoring as well :) Amalia is a gorgeous name and it reminds me of the children's show I used to watch when I was little: "Víla Amálka" which is really cute
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It depends on the names, of course. Some family names - Cecil, Edgar, Bella, Nellie - I would avoid at all costs.
My son's fn honours a friend; his first mn is a form of my birth ln; his second mn honours two friends and, with his first mn, echoes my initials.
My first daughter's fn just seemed right for her; her two mns honoured her grandmothers.
My second daughter's fn honours my mother; her first mn honours her step-grandmother; and her second mn - Anne - is mine and was my paternal grandmother's mn.
If I'd had any more children, I'd probably not have used so many honouring names, though there are some - Jean, Fraser, Robin (m) - that I could have used quite happily.
My son's fn honours a friend; his first mn is a form of my birth ln; his second mn honours two friends and, with his first mn, echoes my initials.
My first daughter's fn just seemed right for her; her two mns honoured her grandmothers.
My second daughter's fn honours my mother; her first mn honours her step-grandmother; and her second mn - Anne - is mine and was my paternal grandmother's mn.
If I'd had any more children, I'd probably not have used so many honouring names, though there are some - Jean, Fraser, Robin (m) - that I could have used quite happily.
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True, it can be awkward when possible honoring names are quite dated and/or are just a name that you really don't like.
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Hi !!!
I'd love to use honouring names despite in my family nobody follows this tradition.
Actually I know my ancestry just until my great-grandparents. I would start honouring them. If in the future I'll found any older branch, I suppose I will include these new names.
I prefer to use honouring names as middle names though.
I'd love to use honouring names despite in my family nobody follows this tradition.
Actually I know my ancestry just until my great-grandparents. I would start honouring them. If in the future I'll found any older branch, I suppose I will include these new names.
I prefer to use honouring names as middle names though.
This message was edited 3/21/2019, 10:51 PM
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Neat! Yeah, I think middle names work best for honoring names :)
My dad is really into genealogy and has collected all these documents tracing back generations (marriage certificates, letters, etc.)
I'm just wondering, what does that connection mean to you when you honor great-grandparents / great-great-grandparents that you never knew? Because I know others name children on the opposite end of the spectrum––after family members that they're closest to.
My dad is really into genealogy and has collected all these documents tracing back generations (marriage certificates, letters, etc.)
I'm just wondering, what does that connection mean to you when you honor great-grandparents / great-great-grandparents that you never knew? Because I know others name children on the opposite end of the spectrum––after family members that they're closest to.
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