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HelpAgreeing on "Classics"
There have been a few posts regarding "classic" names, but I believe we all share different ideas of which names are actually classics. This is no surprise given our diverse backgrounds, and perhaps somewhat arbitrary notions of what constitutes a classic. However, I thought it would be interesting to see how our ideas of classic names compare.
Below I have comprised a list of what I believe to be true classics (a few obvious possibilities might have slipped my mind). Your task, should you choose to take it, is to add or omit any names on the list to modify it to resemble your own notion of a list of classic names (for example, I am on the fence about the name Philip, but this might be my own experience with the name). I will say that I speak English, and my ideas of classic names are English-language-based. Perhaps if your ideas are based on another language, a different thread might be better tailored to discuss such a list.
What would you add or omit? Please note your revisions. It would probably also be very helpful in letting a final list take shape if you were to comment on the additions and omissions of the responses here.
Repost the list with your revisions.
Alice
Anne
Caroline
Catherine
Charlotte
Eleanor
Elizabeth
Emily
Emma
Frances
Grace
Jane
Julia
Katherine
Lucy
Lydia
Mary
Margaret
Rachel
Rebecca
Sarah
Aaron
Andrew
Arthur
Benjamin
Charles
Christopher
Daniel
David
Edward
Francis
George
Henry
James
John
Joseph
Louis
Matthew
Michael
Nathaniel
Nicholas
Paul
Peter
Robert
Samuel
Thomas
William
Below I have comprised a list of what I believe to be true classics (a few obvious possibilities might have slipped my mind). Your task, should you choose to take it, is to add or omit any names on the list to modify it to resemble your own notion of a list of classic names (for example, I am on the fence about the name Philip, but this might be my own experience with the name). I will say that I speak English, and my ideas of classic names are English-language-based. Perhaps if your ideas are based on another language, a different thread might be better tailored to discuss such a list.
What would you add or omit? Please note your revisions. It would probably also be very helpful in letting a final list take shape if you were to comment on the additions and omissions of the responses here.
Repost the list with your revisions.
Alice
Anne
Caroline
Catherine
Charlotte
Eleanor
Elizabeth
Emily
Emma
Frances
Grace
Jane
Julia
Katherine
Lucy
Lydia
Mary
Margaret
Rachel
Rebecca
Sarah
Aaron
Andrew
Arthur
Benjamin
Charles
Christopher
Daniel
David
Edward
Francis
George
Henry
James
John
Joseph
Louis
Matthew
Michael
Nathaniel
Nicholas
Paul
Peter
Robert
Samuel
Thomas
William
This message was edited 7/31/2015, 1:02 PM
Archived Thread - replies disabled
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Replies
Recommend including:
Amelia
Isabel
Laura
Marie
Alexander
Frederick
Richard
Stephen
Theodore
Timothy
Alfred, Simon and Louise could possibly be included as well. Simon has had consistent usage in the U.S. While Alfred and Louise have declined in popularity in recent years, they still have a presence and have had fewer booms and busts in popularity than Jane; however, they may be considered old fashioned names.
Amelia
Isabel
Laura
Marie
Alexander
Frederick
Richard
Stephen
Theodore
Timothy
Alfred, Simon and Louise could possibly be included as well. Simon has had consistent usage in the U.S. While Alfred and Louise have declined in popularity in recent years, they still have a presence and have had fewer booms and busts in popularity than Jane; however, they may be considered old fashioned names.
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Right - the description "classic" is often applied as a term for the merit of approbation; or it may describe a link to antiquity, which in itself seeks approbation through its lengthy heritage.
Barbara - Greek, but my thoughts lead me to believe that the Teutonics carried this name to the present, mostly through the Goths with Christian influence: and was used to describe foreigners who did not speak Greek, or, later, Latin, which would be the Phoenicians, the Persians, the Hebrews, the Scythians, the Egyptians--and later the Byzantine cultures. Personally, I love to think of Saint Barbara, though more steeped in Legend, yet I proudly bear similarity through her affiliation with the Rapunzel tale.
Susan - Hebrew, yet I also believe that the Teutonics carried this name to the Anglican and American present.
The Biblical names of Mary, Mark, Matthew, John, Peter, and Paul were carried through the Romantic languages and were influenced accordingly.
There is more association in these thoughts than factual accuracy, though no authentic trail of history or schematic subversion could persuasively denounce these associations, as names & words carry through many cultures simultaneously.
Barbara - Greek, but my thoughts lead me to believe that the Teutonics carried this name to the present, mostly through the Goths with Christian influence: and was used to describe foreigners who did not speak Greek, or, later, Latin, which would be the Phoenicians, the Persians, the Hebrews, the Scythians, the Egyptians--and later the Byzantine cultures. Personally, I love to think of Saint Barbara, though more steeped in Legend, yet I proudly bear similarity through her affiliation with the Rapunzel tale.
Susan - Hebrew, yet I also believe that the Teutonics carried this name to the Anglican and American present.
The Biblical names of Mary, Mark, Matthew, John, Peter, and Paul were carried through the Romantic languages and were influenced accordingly.
There is more association in these thoughts than factual accuracy, though no authentic trail of history or schematic subversion could persuasively denounce these associations, as names & words carry through many cultures simultaneously.
This message was edited 8/1/2015, 7:39 AM
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Based on what I'm used to in South Africa (English speakers only, or it gets too complicated) and from my British roots:
Alice
Anne
Caroline
Catherine
Charlotte - it comes and goes
Eleanor
Elizabeth
Emily
Emma - not used consistently; hiatus of centuries
Frances
Grace - it comes and goes; pretty unusual, usually
Jane
Julia - maybe
Katherine - one -atherine name is much like another
Lucy - more UK than SA
Lydia - never very popular, and sporadic; I've never met one
Mary
Margaret
Rachel - Rachael is more likely, but not likely enough to be a classic
Rebecca - less likely than Julia
Sarah - maybe
Aaron - infrequent
Andrew
Arthur - comes and goes; mostly it goes
Benjamin
Charles
Christopher
Daniel
David
Edward
Francis
George
Henry
James
John
Joseph
Louis - infrequent
Matthew
Michael
Nathaniel - infrequent
Nicholas
Paul
Peter
Robert
Samuel - infrequent
Thomas
William
Alice
Anne
Caroline
Catherine
Charlotte - it comes and goes
Eleanor
Elizabeth
Emily
Emma - not used consistently; hiatus of centuries
Frances
Grace - it comes and goes; pretty unusual, usually
Jane
Julia - maybe
Katherine - one -atherine name is much like another
Lucy - more UK than SA
Lydia - never very popular, and sporadic; I've never met one
Mary
Margaret
Rachel - Rachael is more likely, but not likely enough to be a classic
Rebecca - less likely than Julia
Sarah - maybe
Aaron - infrequent
Andrew
Arthur - comes and goes; mostly it goes
Benjamin
Charles
Christopher
Daniel
David
Edward
Francis
George
Henry
James
John
Joseph
Louis - infrequent
Matthew
Michael
Nathaniel - infrequent
Nicholas
Paul
Peter
Robert
Samuel - infrequent
Thomas
William
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Alice: This seems like a name that made a comeback, but it wasn't consistently used in every generation. I can see Alice on an old or young person, but I think it's more rarely used for the in-between generation.
Anne: I think this name is dying out. Anna, on the other hand, seems pretty constantly used for every generation.
Caroline: I don't know because I've never lived anywhere where this name was all that popular.
Catherine: Definitely classic.
Charlotte: Yeah. Maybe more in the "comeback" category, but I'd call it classic.
Eleanor: Same as with Charlotte.
Elizabeth: Definitely classic.
Emily, Emma: Maybe these are classic? But they do vary by generation. My name is Emma and when I was born, nobody liked the name Emma but Emily was very popular. Now kids are all named Emma and Emily is less popular.
Frances: Nope. This name is solidly old-fashioned to me, and it isn't even making a comeback.
Grace: Classic.
Jane: Classic.
Julia: Not really. I see this name as more common in the "middle" generations. Very old people and very young people are not likely to be named Julia.
Katherine: Classic.
Lucy: Yeah, classic.
Lydia: Eh, not quite? But I'm not sure why. I don't think it's used for kids much anymore, but I may be wrong.
Mary: Not very popular now. I think Mary was timeless for a long time, but now it's becoming old-fashioned. Maria is still timeless though.
Margaret: I'd call this classic, but maybe a little too old-fashioned sounding to be "definitely" classic or completely timeless.
Rachel: I think it's classic. It doesn't "feel" classic because I can't picture it being an old-fashioned name, but I think it still is.
Rebecca: Same as Rachel.
Sarah: Definitely classic.
So, in my opinion the "definitely classic" girls (if I'm being very strict) are:
Catherine
Elizabeth
Grace
Jane
Katherine
Lucy
Rachel
Rebecca
Sarah
Alice, Anne, Eleanor, Charlotte, Margaret, and maybe Emma and Emily are included if I'm not being as strict about it.
I'd also add:
Anna
Christina?
Anne: I think this name is dying out. Anna, on the other hand, seems pretty constantly used for every generation.
Caroline: I don't know because I've never lived anywhere where this name was all that popular.
Catherine: Definitely classic.
Charlotte: Yeah. Maybe more in the "comeback" category, but I'd call it classic.
Eleanor: Same as with Charlotte.
Elizabeth: Definitely classic.
Emily, Emma: Maybe these are classic? But they do vary by generation. My name is Emma and when I was born, nobody liked the name Emma but Emily was very popular. Now kids are all named Emma and Emily is less popular.
Frances: Nope. This name is solidly old-fashioned to me, and it isn't even making a comeback.
Grace: Classic.
Jane: Classic.
Julia: Not really. I see this name as more common in the "middle" generations. Very old people and very young people are not likely to be named Julia.
Katherine: Classic.
Lucy: Yeah, classic.
Lydia: Eh, not quite? But I'm not sure why. I don't think it's used for kids much anymore, but I may be wrong.
Mary: Not very popular now. I think Mary was timeless for a long time, but now it's becoming old-fashioned. Maria is still timeless though.
Margaret: I'd call this classic, but maybe a little too old-fashioned sounding to be "definitely" classic or completely timeless.
Rachel: I think it's classic. It doesn't "feel" classic because I can't picture it being an old-fashioned name, but I think it still is.
Rebecca: Same as Rachel.
Sarah: Definitely classic.
So, in my opinion the "definitely classic" girls (if I'm being very strict) are:
Catherine
Elizabeth
Grace
Jane
Katherine
Lucy
Rachel
Rebecca
Sarah
Alice, Anne, Eleanor, Charlotte, Margaret, and maybe Emma and Emily are included if I'm not being as strict about it.
I'd also add:
Anna
Christina?
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I just wanted to point out there are ways to define this objectively, at least up to a certain point in time in the past.
http://nameberry.com/blog/classic-girls%E2%80%99-names-how-to-choose-one-that%E2%80%99s-truly-timeless
One important caveat is that list is for the US, so it's limited in that regard if you're looking for "classics of English language names." So maybe if you expanded the list to say, England, you might add something like Harriet.
But maybe then again what's classic is inherently dependent on a certain cultural context anyway.
I'd argue that what constitutes a name can become ambiguous. Are Anna, Ann, Anne, and Hannah the same name? Helen, Helena, Ellen, and Eleni?
http://nameberry.com/blog/classic-girls%E2%80%99-names-how-to-choose-one-that%E2%80%99s-truly-timeless
One important caveat is that list is for the US, so it's limited in that regard if you're looking for "classics of English language names." So maybe if you expanded the list to say, England, you might add something like Harriet.
But maybe then again what's classic is inherently dependent on a certain cultural context anyway.
I'd argue that what constitutes a name can become ambiguous. Are Anna, Ann, Anne, and Hannah the same name? Helen, Helena, Ellen, and Eleni?
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Being from Australia some of these names are quiet popular and others are used but not as classic I think
I would take out
Caroline
Lydia
Aaron
Arthur
Nathaniel
I would add
Richard
Anthony
Alexander
Stephen or Steven
Hannah
Rose
Lisa
Claire
Georgia
Also Jennifer
Difficult to think what makes a name classic.
PNL: http://www.behindthename.com/pnl/151224. New names added
I would take out
Caroline
Lydia
Aaron
Arthur
Nathaniel
I would add
Richard
Anthony
Alexander
Stephen or Steven
Hannah
Rose
Lisa
Claire
Georgia
Also Jennifer
Difficult to think what makes a name classic.
PNL: http://www.behindthename.com/pnl/151224. New names added
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It is fluid and subjective, as to what constitutes a classic, and that's exactly why, when I made my post, I didn't leave it up to the respondents to decide what a classic is. I wanted to know about names that I consider classic, otherwise, there was a good chance it would turn into a "What names do you hate?" thread rather than "We tend to like classics, yes, but are there any you're not wild about?", which was what I wanted.
FWIW, I agree with you about Victoria not really being a classic. If it were a classic, I never would have used it, as to me classic = BORING. Even a couple classic names that I do like, Katherine and Elizabeth, I consider to be likable but boring and would not use.
Yes, I named my son William, and think it's a nice enough sounding name, a masculine name, I do really like the nickname Will, but, yes, I also think that William = Bore City.
FWIW, I agree with you about Victoria not really being a classic. If it were a classic, I never would have used it, as to me classic = BORING. Even a couple classic names that I do like, Katherine and Elizabeth, I consider to be likable but boring and would not use.
Yes, I named my son William, and think it's a nice enough sounding name, a masculine name, I do really like the nickname Will, but, yes, I also think that William = Bore City.
This message was edited 7/31/2015, 7:54 PM
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I think of "classic" as meaning, basically, names with roots in ancient languages, that may have changed over centuries but have had a standard form in English (Alice, Robert) for at least, say, 200 years.
It is very easy for me to misconstrue names as classic, that have been frequent enough in living memory that I recognize them, and which have old roots, but might have only been used regularly in English for a relatively short time, or maybe were only revived recently. And names that are likely classics in other countries but haven't been used in English until recent times. Examples: Erik, Rose, Emily, Eugenia, Bruce, Neil, Cyril, Doris, Barbara, Brian, Audrey, Camilla, Conrad, Melanie, Tiffany, Victor, Stephanie, Mildred, Edna, Eudora, Jasmine ...
I tend to cut slack and count them as classic if they've been in use for all of living memory.
Adding some more candidates to your list (many arguable I guess):
Virginia
Edith
Theresa
Laura
Diana
Ruth
Leah
Abigail
Clara / Clare
Claudia
Beatrix
Esther
Harriet
It is very easy for me to misconstrue names as classic, that have been frequent enough in living memory that I recognize them, and which have old roots, but might have only been used regularly in English for a relatively short time, or maybe were only revived recently. And names that are likely classics in other countries but haven't been used in English until recent times. Examples: Erik, Rose, Emily, Eugenia, Bruce, Neil, Cyril, Doris, Barbara, Brian, Audrey, Camilla, Conrad, Melanie, Tiffany, Victor, Stephanie, Mildred, Edna, Eudora, Jasmine ...
I tend to cut slack and count them as classic if they've been in use for all of living memory.
Adding some more candidates to your list (many arguable I guess):
Virginia
Edith
Theresa
Laura
Diana
Ruth
Leah
Abigail
Clara / Clare
Claudia
Beatrix
Esther
Harriet
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This is pretty arbitrary on my part, but here goes:
Names added in bold:
Alice
Anna
Anne
Caroline
Catherine
Charlotte
Eleanor
Elizabeth
Emily
Emma
Grace
Helen
Isabel
Jane
Julia
Katherine
Laura
Lucy
Maria
Mary
Margaret
Rebecca
Sarah
Andrew
Arthur
Benjamin
Charles
Christopher
Daniel
Edward
George
Henry
James
John
Joseph
Louis
Matthew
Michael
Nicholas
Peter
Robert
Richard
Samuel
Thomas
William
Vintage or old fashioned:
Frances
Lydia
Francis
Popular biblical but not my idea of a classic name:
Rachel
Aaron
Paul
David
Nathaniel
Names added in bold:
Alice
Anna
Anne
Caroline
Catherine
Charlotte
Eleanor
Elizabeth
Emily
Emma
Grace
Helen
Isabel
Jane
Julia
Katherine
Laura
Lucy
Maria
Mary
Margaret
Rebecca
Sarah
Andrew
Arthur
Benjamin
Charles
Christopher
Daniel
Edward
George
Henry
James
John
Joseph
Louis
Matthew
Michael
Nicholas
Peter
Robert
Richard
Samuel
Thomas
William
Vintage or old fashioned:
Frances
Lydia
Francis
Popular biblical but not my idea of a classic name:
Rachel
Aaron
Paul
David
Nathaniel
This message was edited 7/31/2015, 3:47 PM
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As you say, all definitions are arbitrary. But I'd say that a true classic spans every generation. If you can imagine a name on a son or daughter, and have heard it used on someone of your own age and that of a parent, a grandparent, and ancestors, it's a classic. It doesn't have to have been popular in every generation, just used: it's about consistent use over a long period of time.
Being from the UK, name usage patterns are different - I've never met anyone called Aaron who wasn't from the US, of any age, so I'd drop that, but ymmv. I'd also drop Arthur for inconsistent use and add Mark, Alexander, Richard and Stephen.
Hannah and Joanna have also had consistent use here for 400+ years.
Being from the UK, name usage patterns are different - I've never met anyone called Aaron who wasn't from the US, of any age, so I'd drop that, but ymmv. I'd also drop Arthur for inconsistent use and add Mark, Alexander, Richard and Stephen.
Hannah and Joanna have also had consistent use here for 400+ years.
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I use popularity charts to define classics. Miriam is a classic, as it's charted at the same place - more or less - for a century. John is, Paul - names that never leave the charts.
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I would omit:
Caroline
Rachel
Rebecca
Aaron
Nathaniel
Paul
Andrew
I would add:
Alexandra
Laura
Eve
Georgia / Georgina
Anna
Harriet
Rose
Claire
Louise / Louisa
Alexander
Harry
Jack
Oliver
Frederick
(Matilda and Sophie are also borderline additions for me)
Caroline
Rachel
Rebecca
Aaron
Nathaniel
Paul
Andrew
I would add:
Alexandra
Laura
Eve
Georgia / Georgina
Anna
Harriet
Rose
Claire
Louise / Louisa
Alexander
Harry
Jack
Oliver
Frederick
(Matilda and Sophie are also borderline additions for me)
This message was edited 7/31/2015, 2:46 PM
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I'm not american, but anyway, here we go..
I know that Emily, Lucy, Lydia and Rachel has been popular for a very long time, but I wouldn't consider them classics. Not the same kind of classics as Jane, Mary, Charlotte etc anyway.
Same goes for Aaron and Nathaniel.
I agree with Katie on Richard, Lawrence, Jacob, Frederick, Helen, Rose and Victoria.
I would consider adding these:
Virginia
Anna
Evelyn
Josephine
Audrey
and maybe Kathleen
Jack
Jesse
Anthony
I know that Emily, Lucy, Lydia and Rachel has been popular for a very long time, but I wouldn't consider them classics. Not the same kind of classics as Jane, Mary, Charlotte etc anyway.
Same goes for Aaron and Nathaniel.
I agree with Katie on Richard, Lawrence, Jacob, Frederick, Helen, Rose and Victoria.
I would consider adding these:
Virginia
Anna
Evelyn
Josephine
Audrey
and maybe Kathleen
Jack
Jesse
Anthony
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I wouldn't remove any of the names you have listed, but I would add:
Abigail even though I hate it
Laura
Rose (maybe)
Theresa (maybe)
Virginia
Anthony
Benjamin
Frederick (maybe)
Stephen
Timothy
ETA: Actually, I might remove Lucy, Lydia, and Nathaniel. But I don't know, this is hard!
Abigail even though I hate it
Laura
Rose (maybe)
Theresa (maybe)
Virginia
Anthony
Benjamin
Frederick (maybe)
Stephen
Timothy
ETA: Actually, I might remove Lucy, Lydia, and Nathaniel. But I don't know, this is hard!
This message was edited 7/31/2015, 1:57 PM
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I would omit
Caroline
Emma
Grace
Julia
Lucy
Lydia
Rachel
Rebecca
Sarah
Aaron
Louis
Matthew
Michael
Nathaniel
Nicholas
Paul
Samuel
I would add
Helen
Marie
Rose
Beatrice
Harriet
Sophie
Isabel
Victoria
Matilda
Albert
Stuart
Stephen / Steven
Richard
Lawrence
Jacob
Ronald
Frederick
It is almost impossible to draw any sort of line though, I really struggled!
Caroline
Emma
Grace
Julia
Lucy
Lydia
Rachel
Rebecca
Sarah
Aaron
Louis
Matthew
Michael
Nathaniel
Nicholas
Paul
Samuel
I would add
Helen
Marie
Rose
Beatrice
Harriet
Sophie
Isabel
Victoria
Matilda
Albert
Stuart
Stephen / Steven
Richard
Lawrence
Jacob
Ronald
Frederick
It is almost impossible to draw any sort of line though, I really struggled!
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I'd disagree with that - I can name several prominent Carolines, and many more that I know personally, ranging in age from early sixties to primary school. And I think Sarah has been in steady, constant use since at least the 1700s.
To be a classic, I think the name has to be well represented in all levels of society, not just upper/prominent class (Beatrice, Harriet, Matilda, Victoria), and be consistently used, not just in pockets of trend.
To be a classic, I think the name has to be well represented in all levels of society, not just upper/prominent class (Beatrice, Harriet, Matilda, Victoria), and be consistently used, not just in pockets of trend.
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